Pilot "Whatever" tires on my HP2 Run out of front before running out of back! - Page 2

DSchaffnit · 08-17-2008, 04:14 AM

Same problem with the first set of Bridgestone 016.s. I asked two race instructors that I know well and my mechanic that I unfortunately know too well (due to another bike).

Consensus of opinions was the "damage" was due to much more aggressive riding on the R1200!

Plus a few days on the track.

Maybe a clue here somewhere?

Dave
in Berlin

mfbRSV · 08-17-2008, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Curve

Nobody buys Metzler Racetec tires in bulk at BMW. I'm sure they get a better price than I do but bulk price for a tire thats only going on a few bikes seems poor reasoning for their choice. Whatever......I switching out the Pilots for the Racetec units and already feel better. The Pilots are fine tires and more than I can uses............none the less......I can use more of what I have on the bike if I feel total confidence, and thats the bottom line for us all.

They do cost 220 more dollars to replace than the Pilots, wonder why?

My bad! I missed the segue from supersport street tires to race tires. In that case I would have recommended the Michelin PRC front/Power Race Medium combo for the HP2S. Much better and more expensive than the 2CTs as long as you don't plan to ride in the rain.

I wonder why BMW engineers chose to put such a cheap tire on these expensive thoroughbreds?

R111S · R111S's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Curve

They do cost 220 more dollars to replace than the Pilots, wonder why?

One has to keep the lavish German Government Social System funded...and the Dollar is worthless!

Jeff Williams · 08-17-2008, 12:44 PM

Dr.C,

the CT2's not one of my favorite tires. Its a very good tire for most riding, but not the type of roads i ride. I've had the front slide on me multiple times. Lowering the air pressure, adjusting the suspension, and increasing the length of the shock 5mm. They just don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling and inspire me in a corner. Try the DIABLO ROSSO
jeff

John Lyon · 08-17-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Williams

They just don't give me a warm fuzzy feeling

Like the sheepskin seat pad?

Dr. Curve · 08-17-2008, 05:33 PM

Jeff, two people E'ed me offline about the Diablo units and suggested that they will not be sliding under the conditions I described. I was back out today. Pressures were right, pavement dry and smooth, tight neutral camber corners, ect. I JUST don't feel these tires should be on this bike. The feel is simply not as inspiring as the M Three units that Metz offers so I KNOW the Racetec units will be much better. Thanks for the suggestions and I may well go to some high ticket Diablos in time. Thanks for the tip Jeff. Have any of you actually had experience with the Racetec Metzlers? I have not.

roger albert · 08-17-2008, 05:49 PM

Only on a borrowed ZX6R, moderately built.
They slid around too much for me, but for casual use, they should be fine.
MOst tires are fine for the street. It's really whatever feels right to you, even if the tire is not quite as capable (not saying it's not here, just speaking gtenerally) If you don't have a good feel, you'lll be slow no matter what. This is a "if it feels good, do-it/use-it scenario.

Anytire can help or hose you. I have 3 near high-sides in the last two days, trying to run with the lead instructor at our school (which it turns out, I still can't do, not surprisingly)
I love the 002s, but if you push a tire too hard, any tire anywhere can bite you.
Never went down, but my butt sure left the seat and I'm ready to ice a shoulder down.

Good luck and safe riding with the new Metzs.

Most bike wounds are self inflicted.

Jeff Williams · 08-17-2008, 07:26 PM

Dr.C
Not in two years, they may have changed the compounds, the Racetec needed a high temp to work and only lasted a short amount of heat cycles and then felt 'spotty',(hook,slide,hook,slide).But they looked nice when big balls of rubber dangled off the side of the tire.
I know a lot of people like the bridgestones and don't like the pirelli's because of the shape of each tire. The Bridgestones are rounded and the pirellis,(like the Metz), are Triangular. For the last 2years I've been running the Pirelli Super corsa dragons and all their different name changes. Botton its their dot race tire. I got 2300 miles on the rear and 3500miles on the front. I'm putting on this tire next week to finish up my suspension on the hp2,(gives me a base), then I'll try the rosso.
hope this helps,
jeff
ps I just got back from riding a 08 GXR1000, my bike set up with the shock lengthened turns so so much faster. For fun we did a roll on with an 02 Gxr1000, side by side to 110 then i shut down. fun stuff

Mike Gehl · 08-17-2008, 08:53 PM

Aren't the Diablos just Metzelers in disguise, or vice versa?

Mike

JimMoore · 08-18-2008, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Williams

Dr.C
Not in two years, they may have changed the compounds, the Racetec needed a high temp to work and only lasted a short amount of heat cycles and then felt 'spotty',(hook,slide,hook,slide).But they looked nice when big balls of rubber dangled off the side of the tire.

Tire pressures, heat requirements, heat cycles. I'm not convinced that a race tire is appropriate for street use. Sure you can do it, but i don't think you are really going to get the extra "grippiness" you think you are.

PFFOG · 07:31 AM

I actually think it is the new trend in tires, and tire design. I have been running M3 Metzlers for 3 years now, and the front and rear wear are very close to even. If it is just street, no track days, front wears a little faster than the rear. The M1's and Diablos I ran prior, I could get 1 1/2 rear/front ratio.

Dr. Curve · 08-18-2008, 10:17 AM

Yeskino. What do you think about the drift toward "higher tires" as evidenced by the new 190 - 180/60 tires as compared to the popular 190- 180/50 or 55 ratios? Think we will see more air again between the tread and the rim? Thoughts from other brothers?

PFFOG · 08-18-2008, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Curve

Yeskino. What do you think about the drift toward "higher tires" as evidenced by the new 190 - 180/60 tires as compared to the popular 190- 180/50 or 55 ratios? Think we will see more air again between the tread and the rim? Thoughts from other brothers?

Have not noticed the taller profile tires. It would make it hard to fit the tire warmers between the hugger/fender.

Jeff Williams · 08-18-2008, 05:43 PM

Doc,
some of the new tires,rosso's, suggest a higher pressure than the ones we have used in the past few years.

Jim,
where we ride is a race track

Seriously, we have a quick group of riders and use all types of tires. Of the race tires for the street the pirellis are the best. But do i need them for the street, no. When i find a better,(which looks to be the rosso), I'll use it. Until then my skin is worth the extra few pennies per mile i pay for the Confidence in these tires.
But everyone is different, where we ride is different, that is what makes things fun

jeff

JimMoore · 08-19-2008, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Williams

Jim,
where we ride is a race track

Seriously, we have a quick group of riders and use all types of tires. Of the race tires for the street the pirellis are the best. But do i need them for the street, no. When i find a better,(which looks to be the rosso), I'll use it. Until then my skin is worth the extra few pennies per mile i pay for the Confidence in these tires.
But everyone is different, where we ride is different, that is what makes things fun

jeff

My question is whether or not your confidence is misplaced. From what (little) I know about race tires, it is a little difficult to get them up to operating temperature on the street. If by chance you are able to get them up to temp, you will heat-cycle the life out of them after a day or two of riding, assuming you're not throwing tire warmers on them every time you stop for coffee.

I found the PP to be a good tire for the street and moderate-speed (knee dragging) track days. I thought the Corsa III was a little better. Fresh race tires on the track are even better. I found clapped out race tires to be downright dangerous.

That said, everyone is colored by their own experience. If you like the race tires on the street, have a ball.

BTW, you may want to check out the BT-002RS (not the BT-002). It is the hot new tire amongst the sportbike kids on the internet.

roger albert · 08-19-2008, 06:52 AM

Jim is right on both the poor grip of race tires at street temps, and of the short life due to heat cycling. On the street, no matter what you might think you feel, the race tires will have _less_ grip.

SergioK · 08-19-2008, 07:39 AM

If you are going that fast on the street and you now feel you need race tires to keep grip, you are simply riding too fast on the street. And Jeff, your back yard may be a 'track', but help is what, 30 minutes.... 45? an hour away?

A track has corner workers, w/ radios and an ambulance is at most 2 minutes away. Save the über high performance riding for the place that deems it.

PFFOG · 08-19-2008, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimMoore

........... From what (little) I know about race tires, it is a little difficult to get them up to operating temperature on the street. .............

I found the PP to be a good tire for the street and moderate-speed (knee dragging) track days. I thought the Corsa III was a little better. Fresh race tires on the track are even better. I found clapped out race tires to be downright dangerous.
...........................

Conversely, I used tire warmers for the first time, this past weekend at Calabogie Raceway, in spite of the relatively cool temps (70's), I found that after 3 or 4 laps the M3's started to get a little greasy because they were too hot. I backed down the warmer temps some, and the problem went away.

Nothing like feeling a 500+ lbs bike scooting sideways at 120 MPH to wake you up.

roger albert · 08-19-2008, 11:56 AM

If they got greasy afater 3 or 4 laps, then the pressure wasn't just right.
The warmers play a large role in initial temp, but very little several laps in.
Warmers vs no warmers had just been masking a poor setup, and started again
after you dropped the temp.

motodoc · 08-19-2008, 12:16 PM

Agree with Roger. Alot of these complaints about tires are really issues with incorrect suspension setup, tire pressure issues, etc. I understand people have their favorite tires, but any of the best street-sport tires are better than just about anyone who rides them on the street. The thought that alot of you guys are outriding your tires on the street is just not believeable. That's not a knock on your skills and no offense to anyone.