Fully Variable Valve Train System

[peter f]

Well friends,

Hope that you remember (back in 2006/7) various BMW statements/claims/spy stories/rumors/etc about this "non spring/cam" valve activation thing for the masses and/or ...erm...bikes (F1 engines apart). Since then...

Hopefully, Lotus Engineering does some stuff :

http://bioage.typepad.com/greencarcongress/docs/LotusEaton.pdf

Other Lotus hot cakes : controlled auto ignition engines AND variable volume engines....meaning...what else? > 2 stroke comeback (with a totally different way). Orbital, do you copy?

He He

[peter f]

PS: forgot to mention > rumor is that this S1000RR thing gets a "Valvotronic" system of some sort (BIKE - Feb 09).

[shreddr]

Originally Posted by peter f

PS: forgot to mention > rumor is that this S1000RR thing gets a "Valvotronic" system of some sort (BIKE - Feb 09).

I thought it had already been substantiated that the S1000R would use the VANOS system, do a search I am sure I read that somewhere.

[Dr. Curve]

I sure wrote about it. Don't know where or when however..........just somewhere back down the list. BMW steps WAY forward again.

[throttlemeister]

Again? *snicker* Since when is BMW at the frontlines of innovation? Last time they did something groundbreaking was the introduction of ABS, which is now what, 25 years ago? Everything else since has been at best engineering for the sake of engineering and fixing non-existing problems. You really need to get away from the BMW koolaid Curve.

[chewie]

well couldn't the Doc be saying 'for BMW' it's a big step forward?

sometimes you sound a little uptight and almost w@nkerish yourself TM

since your broad generalisation about us ozzies you'll be pleased to know that I've got some spare koolaid cans left over from my sessions with my shrink - I'll send 'em straight over

anyway - tossers aside...

Sounds like interesting stuff to me, bring it on!

[throttlemeister]

Can't have been a bad one, since I don't remember. But nothing wrong with generalizations. Nothing spices up a discussion like a well timed generalization! I have one for every occasion.

[shreddr]

Here's a pic of a VANOS system in a car.

[peter f]

Erm gentlemen

I've mentioned that Valvotronic again because for the very first time there's some photo evidence of the thing - I mean that 3rd "cam" (OK...a small evidence).

The main issue here (leaving that R1000SS Valvotronic stuff apart) is why the electric valve activation (ideal for a bike where middle torque and banzai power could coexist) is on ice in Munich these days

See what Lotus-Eaton claim > "just" ~1300 dollars for "some" kind of real-life implementation.

Of course...that's the theory...

[peter f]

PS: This is the valvetronic BMW thing. Spot the 3rd "cam" - it's obvious what it does (the very same thing that BIKE had spotted in that R1000SS head).

http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/technology/valvetronic.htm

[onekiwi]

w@nkerish and tosser , have not heard those terms for a while!

[squall_line]

Originally Posted by peter f

The main issue here (leaving that R1000SS Valvotronic stuff apart) is why the electric valve activation (ideal for a bike where middle torque and banzai power could coexist) is on ice in Munich these days

The theories that I saw floating around in the last few years were: 40-48V system needed to effectively actuate the valves at the speeds needed, and an inability to mimic the smooth opening and closing that a cam lobe provides. The electric valves were too "binary", for lack of a better term.

[signit98]

Originally Posted by chewie

sometimes you sound a little uptight and almost w@nkerish yourself TM

...the key word being "sometimes"... and, don't we all (or most of us, the few perfect board-members aside) at times...

Have you ever heard or read anything substantial or critical from Curve that could not have been read in a tech-publication, magazine or online long before he posted it here?

Yet, he is always very quick in bringing the attention to himself, on the way up the pedestal...

It is tiresome... maybe even as much as my abrasive personality, eh, Steve?

[signit98]

...it's another form of variable valve timing... ladi-freaking-da!

Look at Yamaha's new engine with a cross-plane-crankshaft design... that's interesting! An I-4 that takes the "shot out of a cannon" feeling out of the equation...

WSBK should be interesting the next two years (the economy not withstanding)...

I love that fact that WSBK has and interesting lineup this season... can't wait!

[peter f]

Hmmm

Don't tell to anyone...but I confess that I can't get it (that give the back tire an easy moment theory - the Ducati thing and now that R1/Valentino stuff). I mean...I'm doing the maths...but how you can find "easy moments" at 12000 rpm...(VS the trad inline 4 power delivery, that is).

MotoGP lost the plot (rules for nothing and then..."some" more) ...WSBK is the new King.

[peter f]

PS: but, leaving electric stuff aside, the other interesting thing with Valvetronic is that makes throttle butterflies obsolete (you know that cable mess/splitters/etc in boxers...he he)

All things are carried over by valve lift. Interesting "simplification" (if we forget the Valvetronic array of servos/lifters/3rd cams/nuts/bolts/you name it).

[Highlander179]

wait... what the R1000SS?

[Bigred455]

Originally Posted by signit98

...it's another form of variable valve timing... ladi-freaking-da!

Valvetronic is NOT the same as Vanos. Valvetronic is variable intake lift and Vanos is variable valve timing.

If valvetronic is like the cars it should be real interesting. They can run good, but often have odd idle characteristics. Also, Valvetronic has the ability to control engine RPM by increasing or decreasing the valve lift, effectively making the throttle body a fail safe (it will stay wide open during proper operation).

Also that pic shreddr posted is not what the Vanos system looks like.

[rjo]

The pic that shreddr put up is of a rotary valve system.

[jduke]

VANOS - http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/technology/vanos.htm
Rotary valve technology - http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2007/05/24/049068.html
Valvetronic - http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/technology/valvetronic.htm