WSB 09 The Island, BMW, Corser and Xaus

[Bob Hancock]

I seem to recall that the 996 that Bayliss rode in 2003 had 170 or so hp....give or take a year or a horse. So, while 175 now is great for a street bike, it'll need to be more to be competitive at WSB level today.

[roger albert]

175 HP plus at the rear wheel is very strong not matter what level you are talking about. We are talking 195 plus at the crank on a one liter machine. So what are you getting at Roger?

Nothing in particular. Just saying 175 is NOT a lot at any level. Any number of kids with that at any club race, and even trackdays. No worries. They may have more. I'm just saying that someone saying 175 is a good number means someone doesn't know much about modern racing.

[chewie]

Just have to be careful in regards to where the output is measured when comparing stuff I think.

In any case the bike has much mumbo with it's almost F1 type crazy revving engine thanks to stuff like the techno valve system it has - torque monster it is...there is no doubt about the performance of the engine.

If the Duc and the Bmr are close in terms of power, weight etc, who is the better rider at the Island? Someone on one of the Ducs or Corser? I dunno?

Though I too secretly hope like Jonas - and Ralf you might be surprised in this first year - care to make it interesting?

I'll put a fiver on a podium finish this year and top 10 in this first race, that's five Oz so only 4 for you or something lol

...and Corser was World Superbike champ in 05 BTW - Roger what you talking 'bout?

[roger albert]

> ...and Corser was World Superbike champ in 05 BTW - Roger what you talking 'bout?

And back in 96, if you've been following WSBK that long.
But, he hasn't won a race in how many years?
No disrespect intended. Christ, winning a given championship twice, separated by 10 years is awesome. But, he may have lost his edge. He didn't win at all on the bike that Haga often could. He's still top shelf, but not at his peak.

Good for the rabid beemerphiles. If their bike can't win, they can say that Corser couldn't win on the Yam either. Still a good choice of dev rider by BMW. Corser is awesomely fast and brings it home in one piece. Nothing wrong with that.

[signit98]

Originally Posted by Dr. Curve

175 HP plus at the rear wheel is very strong not matter what level you are talking about. We are talking 195 plus at the crank on a one liter machine. So what are you getting at Roger?

The 1198F08 had an official peak power of 207 HP... the CBR1000RR 08 had 207 as well... if you take a transition loss of 10%, you are looking at 186 Hp at the rear for the 08 models...

I am sure they have found a couple of ponies here and there over the winter... 175 would leave you about 10 ponies behind... 5.7% quite a bit, wouldn't you think?

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by chewie

In any case the bike has much mumbo with it's almost F1 type crazy revving engine thanks to stuff like the techno valve system it has - torque monster it is...

If the Duc and the Bmr are close in terms of power, weight etc, who is the better rider at the Island? Someone on one of the Ducs or Corser? I dunno? ....

Though I too secretly hope like Jonas...

Torque monster, have we seen any numbers? Or have someone had a qualified guess? Like to know what I've missed!

Who is better at the Island, you don't know.. sure you do! It's Corser, you showed us the number earlier, remember?? ;-)

Secretly hope like me... haha it's not a secret anymore, it's all out on the interweb! ;-)

And about Aussieland, I've lived in Adelaide, and in my dreams I race my bike at the Adelaide Street Circuit... well at least see a motorcycle race on it! (only seen ALMS and Clipsal 500)

/J

[chewie]

BTW - I agree with Curve about the fact that the bmr might have a torque advantage at the Island - the Island is the fastest average speed track in the world so for example - turn 2 = southern loop which is crazy fast and pretty long - a bike here needs to be gassed right through the corner at high speed to get the drive required and then there is also turn 12, another corner where the speed is high and the gas is on hard before hitting the straight (and probably into the wind)

IMHO - these are the areas where - based on my ass and nothing more - I believe the Beemer could find some small amounts of time...

Look for turn 2 and turn 12 onto the straight and then say "Well I'll be F%cked - chewie was right"...

Hey - this is just my 2 cents so piss off

phew leave me alone - It's hot here today, I dont feel to good (45 Celsius)

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by roger albert

And back in 96, if you've been following WSBK that long.
But, he hasn't won a race in how many years?
...he may have lost his edge. He didn't win at all on the bike that Haga often could. He's still top shelf, but not at his peak.

Uhmm.. he still came in second in the series last year!

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by chewie

Phew leave me alone - It's hot here today, I dont feel to good (45 Celsius)

I work at the ER, the "doctor" suggest some soft cussions and a Coopers Pale Ale! ;-)
(I'm relaxing in -17 Celsius) :-D

[roger albert]

Yes, he did. That's what I alluded to when I said he brings it home in one piece.
But he did it w/o a single win, on a very well developed bike that was a proven winner in other hands.

And not sure torque monster is a factor at the island. It's a power track, not a torque track.
The 4s with highest power, on average, were very strong the last two years. If you pull one guy (Bayliss) out of the mix, you see the 4s, most with more power, dominated. Bayliss is just so dominant as a rider that he made it happen anyway.

[chewie]

well did those bikes you speak of make small numbers in torque? I dont think so

vee vill see

and 14k rev limit gone this season BTW

edit - what I mean is, if the power is as good as any - then lets talk torque no?

[chewie]

Adelaide eh?

I used to spend a week out of every month there for work - liked it alot, specially the food, they are spoiled for good restaurants over there.

Originally Posted by Jonas The Swede

I work at the ER, the "doctor" suggest some soft cushions and a Coopers Pale Ale! ;-)
(I'm relaxing in -17 Celsius) :-D

advice taken now I'm off to get some soft cushions and sit in front of the telly

[Jonas The Swede]

Originally Posted by chewie

Adelaide eh? - liked it alot, specially the food, they are spoiled for good restaurants over there....

...advice taken now I'm off to get some soft cushions and sit in front of the telly

Good on ya Chewie!
/J

[Chris Canning]

It's an interesting thread!!,but some of you must be living in a cave,horsepower 175hp!!! if it wasn't so far out it would be funny,customer Ducati FO8's put out 210 at the back wheel,how do i know??,because i stood next to the dyno when the bike(s) were on it,thats customer not factory,210 is the very minium that a Superbike will get away with,looking at straightline performance at Monza i'd say the Suzukis have 20hp more than that,at least.

As far as torque is concerned!!! hello is there anybody there",this is 2009 not 1969,what it's all about is a quickish motor matched to a traction control/clutch/suspension combo,i'm lucky enough to be closer than some as to all the ducking and diving that goes on in the background,there's a lot i'd like to go into,but the internet makes this world a small one!!

What WSB is about,is getting away at the front in the leading group,cruise to 4 laps from the end,and then find out who's riding/traction control has looked the back tyre the best,look at last year races

Yamaha will have to go off at another angle with suspension this year,the inroads they were making with Ohlins,with fully motorised suspension that could ajusted during the races has been banned,probably because Ducati didn't have it

My personnel interest,World Supersport,but thats another story.!!!

[chewie]

I dont know enough about traction control to say anything about it.

I thought engine characteristics played a big part.

What's wrong with caves? I happen to like caves very much, beer used to be stored in them for long term fermenting, lagern (lager) means to store...Octoberfest would never have happened if they hadn't had the caves to store it all, way back when...I'll be damned if I will let anybody cast dispersions on caves - you take that back

[deleted this bit - coz I am trying to be a more positive person]

[branners]

Every year, one of the makes seems to take a big step. In 2005, Suzuki amped it up and Corser won the title; two years later, Honda picked up its game and Toseland did it. Ducati had the 1098R for the first time last season, and Bayliss won.
It will be interesting to see how it pans out this year, there is much chat that the Yamaha R1 'big bang' is the thing to have. The BMW has variable valve timing, so it may have a bit of 'both worlds'; mid-range like a Ducati and top end like the other fours.
BTW, Corser is the only rider to win SBK titles on 2 different makes, and win races on 3 different makes. Let's hope he adds to that this season.

[roger albert]

I'm with Chris Canning. I don't think he was trying to be harsh. Just saying, as did I, that 175 hp is coming to a gunfight with a knife. The quote about it being "a lot at any level" is just ludicrously far off. Again, I see that on dynos for trackday guys and entry level, unsponsored club racers. It's a good number at that level, but a joke in wsbk.

That having been said, there are too many new marques and riders and technologies for me to have the faintest idea who will do well. It's a year where rookies have a better chance than usual (rookie rider or marques) but that's a tough row to hoe and a lot to expect. If he can adapt to the new bike quickly, it's Haga's to lose. I like Byrne and Spies too, but Byrne has new tracks and Spies new tracks and a new bike. That's asking a lot too.

[Dr. Curve]

Shucks, perhaps the "175 plus RWHP" rumor was started just to bring out the closet nay-sayers who in their heart of hearts always hope BMW will fail. Perhaps the numbers I got were for the standard street-legal model. We will all see by the end of the year. Sorry to be so postive about the new bike.............it being way underpowered and all.

[Deans BMW]

Originally Posted by Dr. Curve

Shucks, perhaps the "175 plus RWHP" rumor was started just to bring out the closet nay-sayers who in their heart of hearts always hope BMW will fail. Perhaps the numbers I got were for the standard street-legal model. We will all see by the end of the year. Sorry to be so postive about the new bike.............it being way underpowered and all.

I would suggest that the 175 RWHP number is with the box stock full emission and noise compliant street version.

Just sayin.

[Chris Canning]

It's got absolutely nothing to do with being a pessimist,take the the blinkers off even if it's only for a few seconds and you'll realise there's a big old world out there and they are very good,i'm neither anti or pro BMW i gave that kinda thing up when i was around 10 years old,as far as i'm concerned the thread is about WSB,BMW is just one part of it,as is Aprilia and all the others,both these teams have a mountain to climb,with zero data,against very experienced teams who have been at it a long time,all things are possible,but i wouldn't hold your breath,not in 2009,2010 will be a different ball game.

Spies and Bryne hold the key,Bryne knows what it's like to be on the road with MotoGP,Spies will be out of his comfort zone(for a while) he has the undoubted ability,it's more todo with how long it takes to settle in,look at Bostrom,he never did.