OT. why you shouldn't try to run

[turboflyer]

Originally Posted by OwenM

Yes, well, sorry to say that’s the sort of thing that happens in a gun crazy society.

That is an idiotic thing to say. Fortunately for you there are men and women willing to put themselves in harms way to protect people like you. You were not there and all we see is what the camera saw for that snap shot in time. Horrible mistake, maybe. There are so many unknowns. I do know and believe this. If we ever have our right to have guns taken away so people like you feel safe, only the really bad guys and the government will have them. No one will be safe then. Sometimes people make the wrong decision in a critical moment. Sometimes.
As for sgoodwins experience. You need to move. Obviously you live in a very high crime area. They do not quadruple law enforcement to write traffic tickets. And that was your version of what happened. I am sure more went on and was probably said than what you posted.

[Rick Lee]

I've been stopped plenty while carrying, even once by the U.S. Border Patrol who could clearly see the .45 in my center console, and I also occasionally open carry on the bike. Only one time has a cop even asked to see my permit. I've never run into one who had a problem with my carrying.

[sgoodwin]

Turboflyer, the increase was originally because of gang violence. However they have used that increase to patrol the general population instead. Traffic stops & motor vehicle violations have increased at an insane rate here as they have discovered the monetary benefits of increased harrassment of the populace. Everything ends up in court with the almighty dollar taking the place of justice. As far as my encounter, no more was said & done than my short synopsis of an 1 1/2 hour encounter. My thoughts were that the officer was a nooby & didn't really know how to handle what I thought should not be any more than a parking offense even though there was nothing stating we couldn't be there. As I said we had stopped there many times before without incident. We are at war with our own police & you are guilty until proven innocent.

[Sofatester]

Originally Posted by PFFOG

Ottawa is the national capitol of Canada, but this Ottawa hills is near Toledo Ohio in the US.

I knew the first, the second was new to me. Thanx for the upgrade.

[martincito]

Always remember that a cop is a public employe with a gun.

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by turboflyer

That is an idiotic thing to say. Fortunately for you there are men and women willing to put themselves in harms way to protect people like you.

Protect me from what exactly? If you think that Police are not likely to behave differentially in a jurisdiction where hand guns can be legally carried or are likely to be carried you are deluding yourself. I know if I were a Police officer and my life was on the line I would be a bit flinchy to say the least.

I am very pleased I don’t live in fear and feel the need to carry a gun, and the knowledge that people in the street are not armed with hand guns is also very reassuring.
Other than in a Police officers or security guards holster the only time I have ever seen a hand gun in the last 50 years was when I was using one at a pistol range. I have more chance of winning the lottery than having a gun pointed at me or my family.

[sgoodwin]

Owen, any legally licensed to carry individual has had to jump through hoops, been background checked & certified to be an upstanding citizen. Only .1 % of legally carrying people are involved in any illegal activity & those numbers don't differentiate between being convicted or exonerated of any crime. If you want to fear someone fear the criminals with guns & the out of control officers who seem to shoot first & ask questions after. This is the difference between subject & citizen. You obviously bought all the lies and are a subject of your govenment. I feel pity for those who fall into this stupidity, only you care enough to protect yourself or family. Anywhere that people have been disarmed has had an increase in violent crime, check it out if you don't believe me. When I had my daughter the realization that only I am responsible for her safety hit me, no cop or anyone else is to be relied on to accept this responsibility, nor are they required to. When the s h i t hits the fan it's all up to you.

[Sofatester]

Originally Posted by OwenM

Protect me from what exactly? If you think that Police are not likely to behave differentially in a jurisdiction where hand guns can be legally carried or are likely to be carried you are deluding yourself. I know if I were a Police officer and my life was on the line I would be a bit flinchy to say the least.

I am very pleased I don’t live in fear and feel the need to carry a gun, and the knowledge that people in the street are not armed with hand guns is also very reassuring.
Other than in a Police officers or security guards holster the only time I have ever seen a hand gun in the last 50 years was when I was using one at a pistol range. I have more chance of winning the lottery than having a gun pointed at me or my family.

I'll subscribe. Compared to the US we have very few firearms in germany.
That's one of the reasons why you can make your way home from a Biergarten in the dark by foot or on a bicycle and the only fear is to miss a turn on a forest path and fall down- in Germany.

One slight difference in my vita: cut the pistol range and set "Bundeswehr", (also cut the 50 years and set 40)
I've seen what firearms can do, I've used them (up to the 20mm Rheinmetall machine canon) in military training, so I'm glad that there are not many firearms here in Germany.

More firearms simply lead to more trouble and more sorrow, including over-nervous policemen who become way too fast with pulling the trigger.
Firearms are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

[macfly]

Firearms are part of the problem and not part of the solution.

As a born Brit I agree with you, but here in America there is a huge emotional attachment to the freedom to own, and carry guns. This no doubt greatly increases the fear that caused the idiot in the first post use his.

More guns certainly means more fear that everyone else has one, and is about to use it on you. They should not let either the fearful or the trigger happy become law enforcement officers.

[OwenM]

Very well said, I would add that fear contributes to even good law abiding people making errors of judgment under stressful situations especially when their lives are at stake, its just human nature. When firearms are involved the consequences of those errors are obviously very serious. Just saying the Police officer did the wrong thing and broke the law without considering what contributed to his actions is putting your head in the sand and ignoring the obvious.
Guns and fear are a bad combination and one begets the other.

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

Owen, any legally licensed to carry individual has had to jump through hoops, been background checked & certified to be an upstanding citizen. Only .1 % of legally carrying people are involved in any illegal activity & those numbers don't differentiate between being convicted or exonerated of any crime.

That may well be but when you consider how many people legally carry in the US that’s still a big problem.
It’s much easier to apprehend those illegally carrying hand guns when know one is allowed to carry and an instant jail sentence for carrying is certainly a deterrent.

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

If you want to fear someone fear the criminals with guns & the out of control officers who seem to shoot first & ask questions after.

I would much rather not live in fear and we don’t here, getting shot is not something we are concerned about and violent crime rates are very low.

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

This is the difference between subject & citizen. You obviously bought all the lies and are a subject of your govenment. I feel pity for those who fall into this stupidity, only you care enough to protect yourself or family.

Anyone here without a criminal record can own a firearm or several if they wish, but what we cannot do is carry handguns in public. The carrying of knives or other potentially offensive weapons is also banned and that’s a good thing.
The use of firearms for self defence is not accepted and is not something the vast majority of people would even consider anyway as they don’t live in fear.

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

Anywhere that people have been disarmed has had an increase in violent crime, check it out if you don't believe me.

That is certainly not the case here.
More people are killed buy hand guns alone in the US in one day than all firearms related deaths in a full year here.

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

When I had my daughter the realization that only I am responsible for her safety hit me, no cop or anyone else is to be relied on to accept this responsibility, nor are they required to. When the s h i t hits the fan it's all up to you.

If I were worried about the need to protect my family with a gun I would pack up and move somewhere safer.

[PFFOG]

Originally Posted by OwenM

That is certainly not the case here.
More people are killed buy hand guns alone in the US in one day than all firearms related deaths in a full year here..

The same can be said of Switzerland, where almost every household has a military issued gun.

Our problem isn't guns, it is society and the degradation of values and responsibility to teach our children properly.

[lightfighter]

Owen, I am guessing that there aren't (for example) smugglers coming up from new zealand with bales of dope. We have a violent crime problem regardless of whether my neighbor has a gun in his car or not.

Im guessing if the made all these drugs illegal, all the problems would go away.... oh, wait....

[Backwoodsboy]

Originally Posted by turboflyer

That is an idiotic thing to say. Fortunately for you there are men and women willing to put themselves in harms way to protect people like you.

With all due respect, there are men and women that protect and serve, but very few of them. I personally know 8 sworn police officers, and Ill have to admit that im glad that they are on my side, only one of them I would call a good guy, the other 7 have told me storys that make me not want to get stopped in certain areas.

Ive been pulled over and my girlfriend at the time needed to use the restroom, I got pulled over for a damn lic plate light and she damn near had to go the the hospital after waiting for 1 hour.

Im so fed up with getting pulled over for 4mph over that anymore I hit the light kill, swing my foot back to bend plate in and lean into the throttle. Crown vics stop at 110, chargers wipe out on country roads, and the new toyota camrys just fade in the distance.

[Sofatester]

Originally Posted by PFFOG

The same can be said of Switzerland, where almost every household has a military issued gun.
Our problem isn't guns, it is society and the degradation of values and responsibility to teach our children properly.

Interesting statement.

Always thought the swiss have their guns closed away in safes and most of them only like to polish them instead of making them filthy by firing them.

Reading your second phrase, I'd say that degradation of society, values, responsibility and a sense of belonging together plus a consistently drop in proper education is THE big problem.

That problem may be bigger in the U.S. than in Germany, but we have the same problem, also. And we have a saying that all U.S. problems come to us about 10 years later.......

Guns are another problem. The big education-and-society-problem doesn't wipe out the gun-problem. I think the education-and-society problem becomes more severe thru guns.

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by PFFOG

The same can be said of Switzerland, where almost every household has a military issued gun.

Our problem isn't guns, it is society and the degradation of values and responsibility to teach our children properly.

Do you carry those military issued guns with you at all times or are they locked up at home?

Would it bother you if a large proportion of the population carried a hand gun day to day?

The degradation of society and its values is a separate issue but one that also needs addressing, the gun issue is only one problem but one that can be address if there is a will.

[PFFOG]

Originally Posted by OwenM

............. the gun issue is only one problem but one that can be address if there is a will.

Even if there was a will and willingness of most gun owners to surrender their arms we would still have a problem. Trying to gather them all up would be like trying to gather all that oil floating around the Gulf of Mexico and stuffing it back in the ground.

Although to the rest of the world, the US has a lot of gun violence, it really is isolated and not a fear for 99% of the population.

I am between two fairly large cities in Upstate NY, and there is a LOT of killings in both cities, but it is mostly drug trade stuff, dealers killing other dealers. Both cities are on the interstate and that is a pipeline for drugs from Canada to NY city. And if they did not have guns, it would be knives, or bats. Again the societal problems are the cause, the weapon is just the vehicle, IMHO.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by OwenM

Would it bother you if a large proportion of the population carried a hand gun day to day?

Not at all. In fact, there'd be a tiny fraction of the violent crime that exists today if everyone were always armed. Criminals steer clear of those who are likely to put up armed resistance. Why are there never killing sprees at gun stores, shooting ranges or police stations? Every single mass killing in this country only happens in "gun free" zones, where the perp knows he will not be stopped until he runs out of bullets or the police arrive 30 minutes later.

[sgoodwin]

On a lighter note humor Austraiian style.......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Some jokes from AUS - Warning, some might be offensive.
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Been sent some jokes.

WARNING! May contain offensive topics and racial undertones...


• I’m living next door to an aboriginal couple at the moment. They have 3 little kids and they’ve challenged me to a water fight in the back yard, so I’m just writing to you while the kettle boils!

• Can you spare just $2? Ranji is a 9yr old boy living in Namibia. He has only 1 leg, 1 arm and 1 eye. Each day he has to ride 7 miles to school along a narrow road on a rusty bike with bent wheels, no brakes and only 1 pedal. If you send us just $2, we will send you the video – its f u c king hilarious.

• I’ve caught a stray parrot in my garden. All he says is good morning you ugly c _ _ t? It’s not yours is it?

• I’m sick to death of people knocking on my door looking for donations. Just had one from the sperm bank. F u c k. did I give her a mouthful.

• Been to the optometrist today – he told me I was colour blind. I’m f u c king worried now that some of my mates could be coons. If you are, can you delete my number? Ta

• Husband says to his wife “do you fancy playing a rape game?” Wife says “no”. Husband replies “that’s the spirit!”

• There’s a new anti-depressant for lesbians on the market: Trycoxagain.

• I failed my biology exam today. I was asked to name 2 things commonly found in cells. Apparently, aboriginals and Lebanese rapists is not the correct answer

[jduke]

Why can't we agree to severally limit handguns?
I want a machine gun. I want a bazooka. I want a tank to drive down main street during rush hour. I think most reasonable people will agree that some gun control is okay. Once we get past the fear that government is going to take all our guns, we might be able to reasonably agree that handguns serve no useful purpose except to kill someone. I know some people hunt with them, but then what if I want to fish with dynamite?