OT. why you shouldn't try to run

[roger albert]

Remember, Chewie didn't post, or promote those jokes. Those gems were shared by you.

[sgoodwin]

Never suggested he did, they were just sent to me by a friend awhile back. Just saying the potential exists for the need to defend yourself anywhere as exibited by that type of humor which reflects the attitude of some. Not suggesting all Ausies are hateful but it obviously exists.

[twodear]

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

Never suggested he did, they were just sent to me by a friend awhile back. Just saying the potential exists for the need to defend yourself anywhere as exibited by that type of humor which reflects the attitude of some. Not suggesting all Ausies are hateful but it obviously exists.

Luckily, I would only have to defend myself against suspect humor, knife, cleaver, screwdriver or bat etc . It will be highly unlikely that I'd have to defend me and mine from a firearm.

[lightfighter]

let me say this, I actually would love to feel like the ability to defend ones self and family just wasnt so close to the harth... but it is, and the idea that you might "only" need to defend yourself, or a loved one, or some poor sot you dont even know, against a knife or a screwdriver or a bat is EXACTLY why I carry a gun pretty much everywhere I go.

(my how this thread set adrift though)

[PFFOG]

Originally Posted by lightfighter

l........... and the idea that you might "only" need to defend yourself, or a loved one, or some poor sot you dont even know, against a knife or a screwdriver or a bat is EXACTLY why I carry a gun pretty much everywhere I go.

(my how this thread set adrift though)

The devil made me do it

YouTube - Indiana Jones Sword vs Gun

[lightfighter]

haha... l love that scene.

Originally Posted by PFFOG

The devil made me do it

YouTube - Indiana Jones Sword vs Gun

[twodear]

Originally Posted by lightfighter

let me say this, I actually would love to feel like the ability to defend ones self and family just wasnt so close to the harth... but it is, and the idea that you might "only" need to defend yourself, or a loved one, or some poor sot you dont even know, against a knife or a screwdriver or a bat is EXACTLY why I carry a gun pretty much everywhere I go.

Its a good thing Indiana was a good shot and only packed a revolver. A ricochet or a couple of missed shots would really have impressed the crowd milling along the sides. I guess you're saying that you would be unable to provide protection without a handgun? Would you honestly be able to gain access to it and use it without becoming a worse danger? Could you keep someone from relieving you of it and using it against you?

Firearms are like nuclear weapons; they can only be kept as deterrents, you won't know until the moment that you could actually use them but once you do, potentially, everybody dies.

Knife to a gun fight? Always a possibility I suppose. I feel safe that it won't happen here but perhaps I'd not be so lucky in Arizona. I've been in some bad places while travelling in this oil business and managed to get out of a couple of tight spots by talking. Having a weapon would not have worked in my favour. Amazingly, I'm still here.

[chewie]

I think it's unfortunate that a person on this planet cannot feel safe unless they are carrying a gun.

I've been to the US, I loved it, loved the people, it was great fun and there was no trouble, in fact some of those crazy arsed yanks were more 'out there' than some crazy ozzies...and that's sayin something, believe me

I'm glad I don't fear my fellow citizens, but if I was in a country where people were strappin heat, I wouldn't feel safe unless I was too, it just a different way of livin I spose

Anyway - fellas, you are more than welcome to come down under, Owen may get a little carried away at times but for the most part we are pretty good folk, middle of the road kinda people and even more so if you don't read about sgoodwins email made up from the 1970's

I love yuz all

PS
eA mate at work got pinged by a coppa for talkin on his mobile phone while driving, as it turned out he was eating a Mars bar, coppa didn't believe him and it went to court - at least the coppa didn't think it was a magazine about to be loaded into a gun

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by PFFOG

We had a similar local program, and it did get some off the street, but most were from the widow that still had her deceased husbands military sidearm sitting in the back of the closet.

That’s a positive outcome, an unsecured handgun in the home is a hazard, they fall into the hands of children and thieves, best thing is to hand it in.

Originally Posted by PFFOG

We have tried that too, but my guess is that there are just as many drunks as there always has been driving, maybe there are just more arrests, so It seems so. What we seem to have are the career drinkers that are WAY over the limit. We yank licenses and they still drive and drink, we throw them in jail, and they still drive and drink. Yes it is less socially acceptable, but the ones it took off the road, was the ones that had some responsibility in the first place and were not as high risk as what we have left.

We will never stop the hardcore drink drivers (most of whom are alcoholics) just as we will not stop hardened criminal acquiring guns. However we can affect the behaviour of a large segment of society in a positive and demonstrably beneficial way. I have certainly seen a real change over the last 30 years.
Not all drink drivers are habitual offenders and not all firearm deaths are at the hands of criminals.

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

I went to one of these silly buybacks in Phoenix two years ago. Some friends and I even outbid the police for some of these guns and got smoking deals. The cops were giving $100 gift cards from the local grocery store. But they ran out because so many people were turning in worthless junk they couldn't sell for even $50. The cops chased me away in a church parking lot as I was reaching for my wallet to buy a nice Makarov from a guy who was gonna turn it in. Then we just went back to the main police station and continued there. Cops didn't bother us and two of my buddies scored a CZ-52, a Ruger 22/45 and a Bersa .380 for $100 cash each.

You would not have been chased off by the cops in that situation here you would have been arrested because the trade or sale of firearms without going through a licensed firearms dealer or a government agency is illegal.

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Yeah, those gun buybacks sure do put a dent in crime. Ha!

Plenty of people are shot by non criminals and plenty more are intimidated or threatened with firearms, particularly hand guns.

It seems that some here take an all or nothing outlook; if gun control does not eliminate all gun related deaths it’s better to do nothing. How many lives need to be saved before it’s considered worthwhile?

Back on topic, how many people here think the actions of the Police officer in the OP’s video would have been deferent if he was confident the guy on the bike was unarmed?

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by OwenM

It seems that some here take an all or nothing outlook; if gun control does not eliminate all gun related deaths it’s better to do nothing. How many lives need to be saved before it’s considered worthwhile?

It's obvious Oz and the U.S. are different cultures.
I'm armed and do not live in a state of fear for my safety. I am vigilant.
Part of my vigilance is due to the fact I live in the NY metropolitan area and we've been attacked by Islamic jihadists on multiple occasions since 1983. And we continue to be a target as evidenced just recently by the botched bombing in Times Square. To show you how close to home this is, shreddr was in TS with his family 45 minutes before all hell broke loose with Faisal "Shazaam" and his Pathfinder full of explosives. Paterson, NJ is a hot bed of jihadist cells and is under surveillance. Also, we don't have the same sense of daily community in this country that you depict with your comments about life down under. We are a much more individualistic society, regardless of recent liberal leanings to political correctness and control. E pluribus unum, out of many, one, is more of an ideal than a daily practice, unless we are freshly threatened or attacked like on 9/11. But we always revert to the notion of indivdual rights and pursuits, within the law.
The 2nd amendment to the United States Constitution, adopted December 15, 1791, provides my right to be armed. Aside from centuries of debate about what it means, the language and punctuation, etc., I believe it guarantees my right to bear arms. It says: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
I take that statement seriously and will not surrender that right under any circumstances. I have no fear, fear does not enter my daily thoughts or dictate my daily actions. I am simply vigilant and I am armed as is my right. I am very comfortable with that position. I live in NJ which has the toughest gun laws in the country. Yet criminals have no problem getting weapons. Gun control only prevents law abiding citizens from obtaining weapons and I'm not interested in yielding my rights as stated above.

With regard to the video, the officer made an error and someone is dead. It looks like to me the rider first ran from the police then stopped. When you run from the police, you open the door to the possibility that anything can happen which it did in this case with tragic results. Two mistakes, one stupid decision to initially run from police and one error in judgement by the officer and someone is dead. Tragic but caused by both parties and no reason for me to alter my position stated above.

Come over to the U.S. anytime. It's a great country, a great people and a safe place to live. And a lot of great roads to ride. When the patrol car lights come on, I stop immediately and keep my hands in plain sight. Police officers are only human, you know.

[Guest24]

The sad story is, not every person who would stop to help you on the side of the road is REALLY stopping to help YOU. But, the "let's all you honest folk turn in your weapons" is NOT the answer to this equation. Howz about the bad guys go first approach.

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by cageyar

It's obvious Oz and the U.S. are different cultures......

Oh dear, do you really believe you carrying a hand gun makes a difference? Is it useful for shooting down airliners full of innocent civilians over NY City?
I suppose you are going the take the law into your own hands and become judge, jury and potentially executioner whenever you see fit, most places on earth they take a dim view of that concept.

Originally Posted by cageyar

Come over to the U.S. anytime. It's a great country, a great people and a safe place to live. And a lot of great roads to ride. When the patrol car lights come on, I stop immediately and keep my hands in plain sight. Police officers are only human, you know.

I’m sure it is a great country and I’m sure the people are hospitable. I may be there next year as my wife is planning a trip,when I have more details I may seek information on what to see and where to go.

The idea that I should be carful about keeping my hands in plain sight when pulled over by a traffic cop is completely alien to me but considering the apprehension in the mind of the officer I will be VERY careful.

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by Nail24

The sad story is, not every person who would stop to help you on the side of the road is REALLY stopping to help YOU. But, the "let's all you honest folk turn in your weapons" is NOT the answer to this equation. Howz about the bad guys go first approach.

That’s a very telling comment on society in the US, I have never felt worried about “criminals” accosting me on the side of the road; it’s such an unlikely occurrence it’s not worth considering.
By far the most dangerous thing I do is ride a motorcycle; criminal activity does not even rate a mention. Little wonder myself and the vast majority of other Aussies don’t feel the need to protect ourselves with guns.

[lightfighter]

wow. the Indiana Jones clip, is a movie clip. It is entertaining. It is FUNNY.

can you defend yourself from a knife or a bat? No. you can not. not without years and years of targeted martial arts training. and even then, you may bleed out after disarming your attacker.

will the gun on my right hip always be accessible in exactly the right amount of time. No. but then again, my helmet wont always be exactly what is needed, but i wear that anyway, becuase it gives me better odds.

what upsets me is that many gun owners feel that the mere possession of a firearm "makes them safe"(believe me, i see this attitude alot at the firearms classes I teach).

But what upsets me even more is the idea that we should be wished disarmed bytose who believe that the mere possession of a firearm makes life untenable. These people(in the US anyway) tend to live in bubbles, and expect that others will provide security for them.

Oz has about 1/4 the homicides that we do. great. If violent crime went down 75 percent, I'd still not want to be the victim of it. I dont live in fear, I just take a few minutes a day to deal with a weapon, and a couple hours a month to practice with it. I also think and observe the world and the people around me, and try to avoid getting into situations that require gunplay(when not on duty I mean). all this is why statistically, I should never need the little semiauto tucked neatly away in my jacket or waistband. But i have it if i do.

[EZ-RIDER]

We don't need no Stinking Handguns, YouTube - crazy shotgun

[Bob K.]

Please, someone post as soon as we hear what happens to the officer.

I am a big police supporter. My best friend is a MD Toll Facilities Police Officer. However, this was wrong. This officer should be punished.

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by Bob K.

My best friend is a MD Toll Facilities Police Officer. However, this was wrong. This officer should be punished.

Undoubtedly he should; however the question remains, would he have exited his vehicle gun drawn and shot the guy on the bike if he did not believe he was armed?

[cageyar]

Originally Posted by OwenM

Undoubtedly he should; however the question remains, would he have exited his vehicle gun drawn and shot the guy on the bike if he did not believe he was armed?

The moral is: Don't run from the police-you may get shot.

[lightfighter]

As a side note, all thos gun free euro police agencies, are MUCH more liberal witht he stick than we are too.

[SergioK]

Originally Posted by chewie

I think it's unfortunate that a person on this planet cannot feel safe unless they are carrying a gun.

It's definitely a North American thing. In South America there's a saying regarding handguns...

'The devil loads them and idiots fire them.'

Quite opposite from 'from my cold dead hands'...