OT. why you shouldn't try to run

[jduke]

You're right sgoodwin, those jokes are offensive, even racist. But at least you learned a lesson. So how about keeping them to yourself from now on?

[Sofatester]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Not at all. In fact, there'd be a tiny fraction of the violent crime that exists today if everyone were always armed. Criminals steer clear of those who are likely to put up armed resistance. Why are there never killing sprees at gun stores, shooting ranges or police stations? Every single mass killing in this country only happens in "gun free" zones, where the perp knows he will not be stopped until he runs out of bullets or the police arrive 30 minutes later.

Then we probably should have at least a mass killing every day here in Germany.
But we have not. Maybe it's just because we have passed that period for all times. At least, I hope so.

The very few encounters of that sort during the past 10 years were youngsters who couldn't stand being an outsider at school - and they learned about armed amok from the internet, and were members in a gun sports club or had one of the very few parents with firearms in the house.

Gotcha !

@jduke: One thing I have to reveal is I also would like to rent my former MARDER IFV for just an afternoon, only to feel that 700 diesel hp again and perform a nice drive-thru the traffic jam.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Sofatester

Then we probably should have at least a mass killing every day here in Germany.

Germany doesn't have much violent crime or a gun culture anyway. (I've lived there, so I know a little about the place.) There are plenty of places in the world where guns are largely banned and, if the ban were lifted tomorrow, no one would run out and buy guns. It's just a cultural thing.

We have a lot of crazy people who, despite every law and harsh punishments for breaking them, still have no problem getting guns. When they decide to kill a bunch of strangers at once (sort of like suicide bombers in other places), they only pick places where they know they'll face no resistance. BTW, if someone is prepared to commit mass murder and then suicide, there is no law that will stop them, only other armed people can.

China, where no one has guns, is now going through a rash of crazy people attacking school children with knives and cleavers. It's happened once a week for months there now! This has happened in plenty of other places where guns are not commonplace too. Evil and/or crazy people will never be pacified by any difficulty in getting a hold of weapons. And that's why it's always better to have people around who can put a stop to the madness, maybe even deter it in the rational bad guys. When seconds count, the police are just minutes away.

[DanielK]

What a shame......too trigger happy

[OwenM]

Originally Posted by PFFOG

Even if there was a will and willingness of most gun owners to surrender their arms we would still have a problem. Trying to gather them all up would be like trying to gather all that oil floating around the Gulf of Mexico and stuffing it back in the ground.

Although to the rest of the world, the US has a lot of gun violence, it really is isolated and not a fear for 99% of the population.

I am between two fairly large cities in Upstate NY, and there is a LOT of killings in both cities, but it is mostly drug trade stuff, dealers killing other dealers. Both cities are on the interstate and that is a pipeline for drugs from Canada to NY city. And if they did not have guns, it would be knives, or bats. Again the societal problems are the cause, the weapon is just the vehicle, IMHO.

There is no need for legal gun owners to just hand in their weapons; the approach can be more subtle.
Over a period of several years we had amnesties where people could voluntarily hand in illegal or unlicensed firearms without question. Concurrently there was a buy back scheme whereby licensed owners could hand in whatever weapons they no longer wanted as well as high powered semi automatic rifles that where to be banned and be reimbursed at market price. The scheme was very successful and removed a large number of guns from the community voluntarily.

We never had much of a problem with hand guns here as they have been tightly controlled for about a century. It’s not illegal to own one (although it’s difficult) but it sure is to carry one and has been for longer than I have been around.

Social attitudes can be changed, once drink driving was rampant here and pretty much accepted as the norm, however after 30 years of media campaigns, public education and strong enforcement it’s no longer socially acceptable and no where near the huge problem it once was. Along the way many people where upset because their drink and drive habits had to change but many hundreds of lives where saved and the public good was served.

Over time public attitudes toward firearms can also be changed but it won’t happen over night or at the stroke of a politician’s pen. Strong leadership is required but more importantly the general population have to have the will to reform and make the required changes happen. Unfortunately I can’t see that happening in the states, at least not in the foreseeable future for many reasons.

[sgoodwin]

Originally Posted by jduke

You're right sgoodwin, those jokes are offensive, even racist. But at least you learned a lesson. So how about keeping them to yourself from now on?

Just thought you might want a look at Owen's perfect society, humor shows a cultures attitude to many things. I don't know what you mean by me learning a lesson.

[PFFOG]

Originally Posted by OwenM

There is no need for legal gun owners to just hand in their weapons; the approach can be more subtle.
Over a period of several years we had amnesties where people could voluntarily hand in illegal or unlicensed firearms without question. Concurrently there was a buy back scheme whereby licensed owners could hand in whatever weapons they no longer wanted as well as high powered semi automatic rifles that where to be banned and be reimbursed at market price. The scheme was very successful and removed a large number of guns from the community voluntarily.

We had a similar local program, and it did get some off the street, but most were from the widow that still had her deceased husbands military sidearm sitting in the back of the closet.


[QUOTE=OwenM;5356190]Social attitudes can be changed, once drink driving was rampant here and pretty much accepted as the norm, however after 30 years of media campaigns, public education and strong enforcement it’s no longer socially acceptable and no where near the huge problem it once was. Along the way many people where upset because their drink and drive habits had to change but many hundreds of lives where saved and the public good was served.[QUOTE=OwenM;5356190]

We have tried that too, but my guess is that there are just as many drunks as there always has been driving, maybe there are just more arrests, so It seems so. What we seem to have are the career drinkers that are WAY over the limit. We yank licenses and they still drive and drink, we throw them in jail, and they still drive and drink. Yes it is less socially acceptable, but the ones it took off the road, was the ones that had some responsibility in the first place and were not as high risk as what we have left.

[geothepencil]

Our captured drinkers now have the blow in the tube to start up the car things to deal with when driving in Illinois. A good step IMO.

geo

[Sofatester]

Originally Posted by OwenM

Over a period of several years we had amnesties where people could voluntarily hand in illegal or unlicensed firearms without question........ The scheme was very successful and removed a large number of guns from the community voluntarily.

We had that same efforts in Bavaria one year ago after the second encounter of the few school-amok-runs. It was an overwhelming success, many legal and also illegal weapons were voluntarily given to the authorities - even without a payment.

No one demanded rights for free weapon posession or armed policemen at the school gates.

[flatbutt]

I'm glad that life is so good outside of the US. Most of us are happy enough here too despite the shortcomings of our country.

[PFFOG]

Originally Posted by geothepencil

Our captured drinkers now have the blow in the tube to start up the car things to deal with when driving in Illinois. A good step IMO.

geo

NY state want to mandate that too, but puts it on the counties to purchase the equipment. Another unfunded mandate.

[geothepencil]

Chicago, not to be outdone, even pays $ 10 for the kids BB guns at their buys. A lot of borderline non functional surplus junk gets redeemed for cash in those feelgood events. A good opportunity to get rid of that .22 that shoots around corners.

But perhaps a moment of silence for the inherited proud abandoned military shooters that well intentioned handlers part with. The horror.

geo

[geothepencil]

Originally Posted by PFFOG

NY state want to mandate that too, but puts it on the counties to purchase the equipment. Another unfunded mandate.

Equipment leased by private companies and paid by the convicted individuals here.

geo

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by geothepencil

Chicago, not to be outdone, even pays $ 10 for the kids BB guns at their buys. A lot of borderline non functional surplus junk gets redeemed for cash in those feelgood events. A good opportunity to get rid of that .22 that shoots around corners.

But perhaps a moment of silence for the inherited proud abandoned military shooters that well intentioned handlers part with. The horror.

geo

I went to one of these silly buybacks in Phoenix two years ago. Some friends and I even outbid the police for some of these guns and got smoking deals. The cops were giving $100 gift cards from the local grocery store. But they ran out because so many people were turning in worthless junk they couldn't sell for even $50. The cops chased me away in a church parking lot as I was reaching for my wallet to buy a nice Makarov from a guy who was gonna turn it in. Then we just went back to the main police station and continued there. Cops didn't bother us and two of my buddies scored a CZ-52, a Ruger 22/45 and a Bersa .380 for $100 cash each.

BTW, there was a local store at the time that was selling Mosin-Nagants for $69 and even less if you bought more than three. If I could bear the thought of knowing those historical guns would be made into manhole covers, I could have bought 50 of them and made almost $1500 the same day by selling them back to the police. Yeah, those gun buybacks sure do put a dent in crime. Ha!

[PFFOG]

Originally Posted by geothepencil

Equipment leased by private companies and paid by the convicted individuals here.

geo

Sounds like your government is smarter than ours.

[geothepencil]

Originally Posted by PFFOG

Sounds like your government is smarter than ours.

I think that's the first time I've ever heard the Illinois Legislature called smart. Realistically, they did it that way because they are billions behind on paying their bills and more and more suppliers are demanding cash up front to do business.

geo

[PFFOG]

Originally Posted by geothepencil

I think that's the first time I've ever heard the Illinois Legislature called smart. Realistically, they did it that way because they are billions behind on paying their bills and more and more suppliers are demanding cash up front to do business.

geo

Well remember we are comparing it to NY, which has been labeled as the MOST dysfunctional state government by several independent groups. the albany project:: New York’s State Legislature is the Most Dysfunctional in the Nation


You had blogo, we had Spitzer, and now Patterson. And the former state senate majority leader, Bruno who is now in prison for two years. He was one of the "three men in a room" that has run and ruined our state for years.

[chewie]

Originally Posted by sgoodwin

Just thought you might want a look at Owen's perfect society, humor shows a cultures attitude to many things. I don't know what you mean by me learning a lesson.

Yep we're all like that here, racist crazed society

[roger albert]

All generalizations are good and accurate.

[sgoodwin]

Originally Posted by chewie

Yep we're all like that here, racist crazed society

No more so than any other, but it still exists. The animosities that start encounters that develop into violence. I don't know any aboriginies but I bet they have opposite & equally offense jokes about you.