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Cars & Coffee Killer
 
legion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Why I don't Fly, The List Keeps Growing...

The TSA can do whatever it wants to you and is immune from liability.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/tsa-screeners-win-immunity-flier-abuse-claims-u-150740124.html

Quote:
Fliers may have a tough time recovering damages for invasive screenings at U.S. airport security checkpoints, after a federal appeals court on Wednesday said screeners are immune from claims under a federal law governing assaults, false arrests and other abuses.
In a 2-1 vote, the 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Philadelphia said Transportation Security Administration (TSA) screeners are shielded by government sovereign immunity from liability under the Federal Tort Claims Act because they do not function as "investigative or law enforcement officers."
The majority said it was "sympathetic" to concerns that its decision would leave fliers with "very limited legal redress" for alleged mistreatment by aggressive or overzealous screeners, which add to the ordinary stresses of air travel.
"For most people, TSA screenings are an unavoidable feature of flying," but it is "squarely in the realm" of Congress to expand liability for abuses, Circuit Judge Cheryl Ann Krause wrote.
The decision, the first on the issue by a federal appeals court, was a defeat for Nadine Pellegrino, a business consultant from Boca Raton, Florida.
She and her husband had sued for false arrest, false imprisonment and malicious prosecution over a July 2006 altercation at Philadelphia International Airport.
Pellegrino on Wednesday said she was reviewing the decision. A lawyer who helped with her appeal did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
According to court papers, Pellegrino had been randomly selected for additional screening at the Philadelphia airport before boarding a US Airways flight to Fort Lauderdale, Florida.
Pellegrino, then 57, objected to the invasiveness of the search, but conditions deteriorated and she was later jailed for about 18 hours, the papers show. Criminal charges were filed, and Pellegrino was acquitted at a March 2008 trial.
Circuit Judge Thomas Ambro dissented from Wednesday's decision.
"By analogizing TSA searches to routine administrative inspections, my colleagues preclude victims of TSA abuses from obtaining any meaningful remedy for a variety of intentional tort claims," he wrote.
Torts are civil wrongs that can result in damages.
A spokesman for U.S. Attorney William McSwain in Philadelphia, whose office represented TSA officials, had no immediate comment.
The appeals court ruled 11 months after throwing out a First Amendment claim by an architect, Roger Vanderklok, who said he was arrested in retaliation for asking to file a complaint against an ill-tempered TSA supervisor.
The case is Pellegrino et al v U.S. Transportation Security Administration et al, 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, No. 15-3047.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:46 PM
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White and Nerdy
 
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People who fly frequently likely have numbness when it comes to human respect and decency.
Old 07-11-2018, 01:57 PM
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well that sucks.

and too bad most of the cool foreign countries to visit are on the other end of a plane ride.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vash View Post
well that sucks.

and too bad most of the cool foreign countries to visit are on the other end of a plane ride.
Check in to going by boat, it is what I do.

Either take a cruise ship when it is repositioning, or go by freighter.
Old 07-11-2018, 02:04 PM
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I fly frequently and never have an issue. But I'm also aware of the rules, respect the rules, don't consider myself to be above the rules, and treat TSA and police with respect even if they are grumpy. Most of these cases are people behaving badly who want to blame someone else. Typically there's plenty of blame on both sides, because God knows the TSA isn't perfect.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:09 PM
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Last month the TSA guy at John Wayne airport said I didn't have to take my shoes to go through the scanner.

A few days later in Albuquerque I was severely scolded for not taking my shoes off before going through the scanner.
Resulted in taking me out of line for a full wand and pat down.

I'm thinking they make this crap up as they go along.
Old 07-11-2018, 02:09 PM
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If man were meant to fly ----- he would have wings.....
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:09 PM
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Did you get the memo?
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyg2 View Post
Last month the TSA guy at John Wayne airport said I didn't have to take my shoes to go through the scanner.

A few days later in Albuquerque I was severely scolded for not taking my shoes off before going through the scanner.
Resulted in taking me out of line for a full wand and pat down.

I'm thinking they make this crap up as they go along.
Did you receive a free TSA Precheck upgrade at John Wayne but not at Albuquerque? That's what it sounds like.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy View Post
Did you receive a free TSA Precheck upgrade at John Wayne but not at Albuquerque? That's what it sounds like.
Yes, that's zackly what happened.

But i didn't/don't know what that means.
Old 07-11-2018, 02:23 PM
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Like Matt, I fly what I would consider a far amount (have 130,000 miles so far this year) and I have never had a problem with the TSA.

Understand the rules and follow them, it is not really that hard really.

I work with folks that have taken illegal items through security a few times by accident and the TSA has been pretty fair to work with resolving what happened.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:31 PM
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TSA Is a bloated, non functioning make work department that has yet to successfully protect anyone from anything, with poor hiring practices, terrible training and waaaaay too much authority. Shielded by law from having to produce any figures regarding how effective they may be, the only figure you can get is that 900+ officers have been arrested for theft since its inception.
A decision like this hurts all the more when you know enough about how airports operate to realize that all that front line security is just theater...nothing effective about it. A determined individual can get anything they like on board a flight with minimal effort. I have been called out to the gate five times this year alone to remove a razor blade from a flight that a passenger located when boarding. These are items workers leave behind by accident. The whole of passenger screening is to make the public feel there is a layer of safety to air travel and really nothing else.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:32 PM
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I have sinned!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baz View Post
If man were meant to fly ----- he would have wings.....

Meet your TSA agents Mr. Wint and Mr. Kidd:


Old 07-11-2018, 02:33 PM
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they do not function as "investigative or law enforcement officers."


So... assuming you had a few hundred dollars to drop on a flight you won't be able to get on (my bet) what exactly would be the issue of showing up, getting frisked, and then putting a beat down on the TSA droid when he/she "touched you inappropraitely" ? Of course, when the real LE gets there, you be polite and professional...

What exactly could you end up being charged with? It has been ruled that they are neither investigative nor LE. So what standing do they have?

I understand they can refuse to allow you to board... An assault charge would be easy to get out of, since self defense when sexually assaulted is accepted....

Any of our recent retirees have a few days to kill and a good friend who is a good lawyer so it won't cost you a few thou in legal fees?
Old 07-11-2018, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by id10t View Post
[I]

Any of our recent retirees have a few days to kill and a good friend who is a good lawyer so it won't cost you a few thou in legal fees?
I nominate Dueller....it'll be one helluva story too
Old 07-11-2018, 02:39 PM
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I fly all of the time with no problem. There are signs everywhere that tell you what you need to do. Simply do as they direct and you will have no problems. If you don't like to take your computer out of your bag, empty your pockets and take off jewelry, shoes and belt, go with TSA Pre. It is very cheap...and free for military. That is what i do. Takes me seconds to get through security (just went through the TSA-Pre line at Albuquerque with a wife and small dog last Saturday)..only had to take the dog out of the bag so it would not be x-rayed. Of course I already knew to do that. Less than 5 minutes start to finish. No one touched me, my spouse , my things or even even my dog.

TSA pays almost nothing (about like WalMart) yet they have to wear crappy uniforms and be polite anyways. The bear the daily brunt of great distain and poor treatment...usually underserved. They are just following the rules they are provided as best they can.

Their record is perfect since inception. Pretty hard to beat.
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:46 PM
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Of course you cannot sue them for false arrest, false imprisonment and malicious prosecution" as they do not have the power to do any of these things. Don't want to be screened, don't fly. Simple as that.
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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"
Some are born free. Some have freedom thrust upon them. Others simply surrender
Old 07-11-2018, 02:50 PM
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I'm a flight crew member and don't even have to go through normal security screening at most airports but I got randomly pulled out of line last week for a pat down etc.. And you know what? No issues or problems.. They went through my bag and patted me down etc, but I did what they said and everything went smoothly. Flying is a privilege, not a right.. I'd happily be ok with more "invasive" searches, or heck, have everyone go through the screeners naked if thats what it takes to be safe!
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Old 07-11-2018, 02:51 PM
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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"
Some are born free. Some have freedom thrust upon them. Others simply surrender
Old 07-11-2018, 02:52 PM
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74 Targa 3.0, 89 Carrera, 04 Cayenne Turbo
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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"
Some are born free. Some have freedom thrust upon them. Others simply surrender
Old 07-11-2018, 02:53 PM
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Look at all the crap that your fellow passengers tried to bring on board last week...and yet we complain about the TSA folks. It is like many of the "outrages" we see these days. Don't act like an idiot and you will likely not be treated like one.
https://www.tsa.gov/blog/2018/07/03/tsa-week-review-june-18th-24th
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74 Targa 3.0, 89 Carrera, 04 Cayenne Turbo
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"The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money"
Some are born free. Some have freedom thrust upon them. Others simply surrender
Old 07-11-2018, 03:00 PM
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