Tesla Model 3

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Nickshu

Not saying it needs a grill, just needs to not look like waterfowl.

Daffynetly !

[lendaddy]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

Seems everyone wants to see E. Musk fail: The 'Big Three', the oil industry etc.

Not exactly correct, the automotive supplier chain (tiers 1/2&beyond) love Tesla and want them to crush it. Tesla bust onto the scene with a "whatever it costs, just make it happen" mentality that hasn't been seen in the industry for well over a generation (probably longer). There are countless suppliers that would be profitless if not for the premiums Tesla pays (and they do pay so far).

The reach of Tesla into the system is huge, they refuse to play by the established rules and much of that is awesome...the industry needed it. That being said, some of the industry rules aren't BS or contrived and trying to ignore those as well is what's causing problems.

[onewhippedpuppy]

I believe Tesla also took big advantage of the government carbon credits scam, correct?

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by island911

I will note that if the cost of IC engined cars or fuel can be bureaucratically pushed to extremes then a full-up electric car simply can compete "Economically."

Over charging for IC or the fuel is absurd! You don't make EV's more affordable by increasing the cost of gas. That isn't fixing an problem with the value of EVs. It is just making all other vehicles value as poor as EVs! Ultimately, all you've done is make transportation less affordable for everyone starting with the lower income group. Hell, why not just ban cars unless you can pay a $5000 per year registration? I probably shouldn't say that since there are some tax and spend politicians that would love to get their agendas funded by more money (keeping it non PARF by generic terms and not pointing to a particular group).

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

^^^this. Musk can sleep on a park bench for all I care. I’d like to see Tesla continue to play the rabbit for all the other companies to chase. Of the big boys, GM seems closest behind. Maybe a good place to find Musk’s replacement. The Model 3 needs to keep delivering cars at the current pace, just without the QC issues.

There is a danger for Tesla in being such a personality driven company, but there is an advantage too, look what happened to Apple when Jobs was forced out the first time.

[Jim Richards]

This Jalopnik article is an interesting read. It hits on practical issues with the car, as well as impressions on its performance.

https://jalopnik.com/the-2018-tesla-model-3-long-range-is-the-perfect-mix-of-1828853186

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by red-beard

After that pod cast, all I could think of was Delorean and the giant bags of cocaine. I went as Delorean for halloween that year.

Ha- I did too!

[red-beard]

Very good review of the manufacturing of the Tesla, both good and bad.

Interesting, and probably makes valid points, but, despite the narration, which constantly says it's a 3, they are looking at a Model S, not a Model 3. So there's that.

[David]

I thought this was a good Motor Trend comparison:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/alfa-romeo/giulia/2019/tesla-model-3-vs-jaguar-i-pace-vs-alfa-romeo-giulia/


I thought this was an interesting point made in the article:
The other day, I read Bob Lutz espouse that "Tesla has no tech advantage, no software advantage, no battery advantage. No advantages whatsoever." With all due respect, Bob, that's bull. As I sat in the plugged-in Model 3 at the Supercharger station in a Valencia, California, parking lot, I watched a number grow on the car's multitouch screen. That's so cool. Just by plugging the charger in, the Supercharger network recognizes the car, charges your credit card, and displays the cost while you're sitting there. No credit card swipe needed. Totally seamless.

Recently I drove a Model 3 for 350 miles using its Trip Planner. Set a destination, and it routes you to Supercharger waypoints, calculates the optimum time to spend at each one to quicken the entire trip, and notifies you via its app when it's time to return from sipping coffee nearby. Already have a Model 3 Performance with the $5,000 Performance Upgrade? Track mode will be over-the-aired to you. Walk up to the car with your phone in your pocket, and the dashboard's bladelike air vents automatically angle down toward the seats, blowing cool air so you're more comfortable on a hot day. The car is rife with clever moments like this.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by David

I thought this was a good Motor Trend comparison:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/alfa-romeo/giulia/2019/tesla-model-3-vs-jaguar-i-pace-vs-alfa-romeo-giulia/


I thought this was an interesting point made in the article:
The other day, I read Bob Lutz espouse that "Tesla has no tech advantage, no software advantage, no battery advantage. No advantages whatsoever." With all due respect, Bob, that's bull. As I sat in the plugged-in Model 3 at the Supercharger station in a Valencia, California, parking lot, I watched a number grow on the car's multitouch screen. That's so cool. Just by plugging the charger in, the Supercharger network recognizes the car, charges your credit card, and displays the cost while you're sitting there. No credit card swipe needed. Totally seamless.

Recently I drove a Model 3 for 350 miles using its Trip Planner. Set a destination, and it routes you to Supercharger waypoints, calculates the optimum time to spend at each one to quicken the entire trip, and notifies you via its app when it's time to return from sipping coffee nearby. Already have a Model 3 Performance with the $5,000 Performance Upgrade? Track mode will be over-the-aired to you. Walk up to the car with your phone in your pocket, and the dashboard's bladelike air vents automatically angle down toward the seats, blowing cool air so you're more comfortable on a hot day. The car is rife with clever moments like this.

That's all well and good, but also just gimmicks. You can find little stuff like that in any modern premium car. None of that will matter once Porsche, BMW, Audi, and Mercedes offer electric cars with more range, better support, faster charging, better performance, and better quality for the same money.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by madcorgi

Interesting, and probably makes valid points, but, despite the narration, which constantly says it's a 3, they are looking at a Model S, not a Model 3. So there's that.

I checked the part number on the battery pack they showed in the video, 1104424-00-J, and it is specific for the 2018 Tesla Model 3.

[David]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

That's all well and good, but also just gimmicks. You can find little stuff like that in any modern premium car. None of that will matter once Porsche, BMW, Audi, and Mercedes offer electric cars with more range, better support, faster charging, better performance, and better quality for the same money.

IDK, Porsche seems really slow to adapt new technology unless it has to do with braking, acceleration or handling. I've owned or driven enough modern Porsches to know they usually lack what the Japanese or even Americans offer technology wise. Eventually they get there but it's years behind. A few things that come to mind are automatic headlight on/off, navigation, blue-tooth phone connection, Apple car play.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by David

I thought this was a good Motor Trend comparison:

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/alfa-romeo/giulia/2019/tesla-model-3-vs-jaguar-i-pace-vs-alfa-romeo-giulia/


I thought this was an interesting point made in the article:
The other day, I read Bob Lutz espouse that "Tesla has no tech advantage, no software advantage, no battery advantage. No advantages whatsoever." With all due respect, Bob, that's bull. As I sat in the plugged-in Model 3 at the Supercharger station in a Valencia, California, parking lot, I watched a number grow on the car's multitouch screen. That's so cool. Just by plugging the charger in, the Supercharger network recognizes the car, charges your credit card, and displays the cost while you're sitting there. No credit card swipe needed. Totally seamless.

Recently I drove a Model 3 for 350 miles using its Trip Planner. Set a destination, and it routes you to Supercharger waypoints, calculates the optimum time to spend at each one to quicken the entire trip, and notifies you via its app when it's time to return from sipping coffee nearby. Already have a Model 3 Performance with the $5,000 Performance Upgrade? Track mode will be over-the-aired to you. Walk up to the car with your phone in your pocket, and the dashboard's bladelike air vents automatically angle down toward the seats, blowing cool air so you're more comfortable on a hot day. The car is rife with clever moments like this.

And the video I posted, they said that Tesla has blown away everyone with the motor, batteries and software. It is the basic body and part build of the car that is killing it. As they said, if the drive train could be put into a vehicle made by Ford or GM, it would kill all electric competition.

Originally Posted by red-beard

I checked the part number on the battery pack they showed in the video, 1104424-00-J, and it is specific for the 2018 Tesla Model 3.

I saw that too. But the cars themselves are S Models. I suspect they may have laced in some stock footage. The point is valid, though--the car was not designed to facilitate economical construction techniques.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

That's all well and good, but also just gimmicks. You can find little stuff like that in any modern premium car. None of that will matter once Porsche, BMW, Audi, and Mercedes offer electric cars with more range, better support, faster charging, better performance, and better quality for the same money.

I agree with you wholeheartedly and have been saying the same thing those past 2 years... Yet, those aforementioned germans seem to be taking their sweet time to deliver... My E-Golf is coming off its dirt-cheap-lease in 4 months. There's *nothing* out there to replace it from BMW, Audi, Mercedes or Porsche. And the few offerings are way up there price wise.

There's a new Leaf (yawn), The Bolt/I3 (like driving the box it came in), E-Fiat 500 (Looks like a can of Yoplait) and the Tesla 3 (Sadly fugly from all angles). Seems VW gave up on their Golf which is annoying because at least it looked "normal" and they could have done a GTI version or something.

I test drove the T3 at lunch from a recent owner, work colleague. I'm very impressed by the power and extra range vs my E-Golf, but as a car guy, I don't picture myself paying $50K for something this ugly, with no gauges, and a giant iPad that landed mid dash. The rear door seals also looks gnarly and overall it feels a little cheap inside for 50K.

I was hoping Audi was going to release something and was invited to the Etron party, but that's $75K starter price for a ho-hum crossover that does 5.5 sec to 60! "Meh."

Not sure what the germans are waiting for, or if batteries don't scale well cost wise, but seems like I'm going back to gas in a few month, annoyingly (can't tell you how much I've enjoyed instant torque and not visiting gas stations these past 2 years)

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

Electric cars were a bit dorky until EM came along, Prius That Honda thing.. Leaf not nice designs. They are also by price-point, a bit elitist, but imagine, at one time even Ford's 'Model A' was a trinket for the wealthy. Seems everyone wants to see E. Musk fail: The 'Big Three', the oil industry etc.

I worked in the oil industry for a long time, I don't recall ever hearing his name mentioned or discussed, non-issue.


I on the other had have a different attitude.
I would like to see him go down in spectacular flames because he's a con man, a crook, a parasite.
He gets rich off of taxpayer money and gubmint interference.
If he played an honest game I'd be one of his biggest fans, but he is far from honest.

he deserves bad things.

[tcar]

Originally Posted by Kraftwerk

....one time even Ford's 'Model A' was a trinket for the wealthy.....

That just is NOT true.

Both the Model T and the Model A were priced so that Ford workers on the assembly line could (and did) afford the car.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by tcar

That just is NOT true.

Both the Model T and the Model A were priced so that Ford workers on the assembly line could (and did) afford the car.

Well, even the T in the first year or so was not cheap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T

The moving assembly line system, which started on October 7, 1913, allowed Ford to sell his cars at a price lower than his competitors.[53] As he continued to fine-tune the system, Ford was able to keep reducing costs significantly.[54] As volume increased, he was able to also lower the prices due to fixed costs being spread over a larger number of vehicles. Other factors affected the price such as material costs and design changes.

In current equivalent dollars, the cost of the Runabout started at $22,471 in 1909 and bottomed out at $3,628 in 1925.

On the A, the price started around $385, which was around the same as the later model T

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Well, even the T in the first year or so was not cheap.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Model_T



On the A, the price started around $385, which was around the same as the later model T

In addition one could argue you get quite a bit more with an "economy" car these days compared to a Model A. So much so that I'd say the cost for an economy car has gone down over the last say 100 years.