If vaccines work as advertised, why are people upset with anti Vaxers?

[john70t]

Does anyone remember:
the attention deficit disorder emergency? (and the psych drugs),
the teenage suicide emergency? (and the psych drugs with suicides and school shootings),
the kidnapping emergency? (while an economic crisis was occurring. go shopping mom.)
the onset of national aspergers-autism emergency? (let's fix this with drugs as well)

grain of salt for consideration. always.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

They call it a medical "practice" for a reason. Over 250,000 people die each year from doctors making mistakes.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_suggests_medical_errors_now_third_leading_ca use_of_death_in_the_us

I can assure you, if I have any health related issues, I will go see a doctor (MD) and not even think about the quacks like chiropractors, or homeopathic alternative treatments. When a chiropractor claims to treat liver problems or diabetes, he is a quack.

Vaccines work..........

Difficult to get a sense of where you are coming from, I will just say that it looks like you do see some parts of both sides of the coin/issue.

The reason "Vaccines work" is the same reason some of those alternative methods work, they allow the body to function better and heal it's self.

In other words it's NOT the vaccines working, it's the reaction the human body makes in response to the vaccine that works. And since we are not all the same, results are not guaranteed to be consistent for everyone.

[sammyg2]

Originally Posted by john70t

Does anyone remember:
the attention deficit disorder emergency? (and the psych drugs),
the teenage suicide emergency? (and the psych drugs with suicides and school shootings),
the kidnapping emergency? (while an economic crisis was occurring. go shopping mom.)
the onset of national aspergers-autism emergency? (let's fix this with drugs as well)

grain of salt for consideration. always.

I remember. I posted about the ADHD scam and how the schools were financially rewarded for getting kids on the medicine even if they didn't need it.

[pavulon]

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

I remember. I posted about the ADHD scam and how the schools were financially rewarded for getting kids on the medicine even if they didn't need it.

Currently a big issue in aviation-

Plenty of young people wanting to fly, but if they have ever been diagnosed with ADHD, they cannot get an FAA medical.

True Attention Deficit is permanent. One does not out-grow it.
The only way to pass the medical is a very expensive psychological quagmire to prove one was misdiagnosed.

"So- you want to be an airline pilot? Welcome! Oh- You were taking Ritalin? Buh-bye."

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by kach22i

Difficult to get a sense of where you are coming from, I will just say that it looks like you do see some parts of both sides of the coin/issue.

The reason "Vaccines work" is the same reason some of those alternative methods work, they allow the body to function better and heal it's self.

In other words it's NOT the vaccines working, it's the reaction the human body makes in response to the vaccine that works. And since we are not all the same, results are not guaranteed to be consistent for everyone.

No doubt, with 1,000 patients the reactions will be varied to many treatments give the same dose. But to say the "treating" with a solution so dilute that no trace of the original is left is effective is just stupid. Chrystals, pyramid power and physic surgeons are just scammers feeding off of desperate people.

I also understand the placebo effect is very well documented. If someone truly believes a treatment will "cure" them, it often can and does even though it is just a "sugar pill" or inert substance.

Vaccines are a different thing. Like real medicine. Given a very tiny does of ricin 100% of all the people "treated" will die. Exposed to a disease like the plague some people seemed to have a natural immunity. Most did not. Same for small pox and polio. Vaccines gave everyone the immunity. The smallpox vaccine did in fact harm a few people, but it saved billions of humans.

[DerkPerk]

https://www.webmd.com/children/news/20190215/ohio-teen-gets-himself-vaccinated-inspires-others

Thank goodness some kids are smarter than their parents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Neilk]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

They call it a medical "practice" for a reason. Over 250,000 people die each year from doctors making mistakes.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/study_suggests_medical_errors_now_third_leading_ca use_of_death_in_the_us

I can assure you, if I have any health related issues, I will go see a doctor (MD) and not even think about the quacks like chiropractors, or homeopathic alternative treatments. When a chiropractor claims to treat liver problems or diabetes, he is a quack.

Vaccines work. As an old grey hair, I received a small pox vaccination and I have a scar on my arm. No one much worries about smallpox now that vaccines eliminated it.

My dad talked about a year when polio was rampant. His parents did not let him off of the property for about a year. Now polio is pretty much gone and it was ONLY because of vaccines. My dad filled up two vaccination books as an Air Force officer that traveled to many countries.

The entire mess caused by one "doctor" that has been proven wrong over and over. Like the flat earth believers, the story has some ideas that makes sense to some people. That simply does not make it even close to reality.

The best fix for all of the anti-vaxers, adjust their insurance rates to include the added risk and cost of treatment. And make them 100% responsible for the costs.

Couple of points, the Gates Foundation is trying to completely eradicate polio from the earth. Only three countries, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Nigeria, still have minor outbreaks, but it due to people not trusting vaccines (Bin Laden issue didn't help there). It's crazy to think that "educated" Americans are as backwards in their fear of vaccines as those countries.

As for paying costs, I agree that parents of anti-vaxers should pay the costs of any treatments related to non-vaccination. However, having seen how expensive vaccinations are, the gov't should foster more competition in the vaccine field. It's been a while, but I remember seeing billed charges of $500 for a set of vaccines. If you are uninsured, that's just nuts for common vaccines.

[GH85Carrera]

With no kids, I have no ideas how much vaccines cost. I hear news stories that the local news has every year as the new school year is approaching. I don't pay real close attention to the stories, but they always say the kids going to school have to have the vaccinations, and if they don't have a family physician they can get them fro free at the county health department. Then they always cut to some kid getting a shot and crying.

I do know there are many programs for the low income to get "free" shots, or shots I and other people that work pay for via taxes.

[john70t]

Someone mentioned mass migration before as a potential source of introducing new disease.
(the New World has already seen that occur about 500 years ago)

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by john70t

Someone mentioned mass migration before as a potential source of introducing new disease.
(the New World has already seen that occur about 500 years ago)

That actually worked both ways. Theory now is syphilis was brought back to Europe by the explorers in exchange for small pox. Well, no one said, lets trade. But it was a deadly exchange.

[sammyg2]

punish people for getting it right and reward the rest.

Typical costs:

•Immunizations for the first year cost at least $620, while the average total cost for all vaccines needed during childhood and adolescence is about $1,170. The total cost includes the cost of the vaccine itself and administration by a health care professional.
•Most private health insurance -- about 80 percent -- covers baby immunizations recommended by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention[1] and required by schools. However, a small percentage of plans either do not cover childhood immunizations or do not offer adequate coverage; for example, some plans do not cover the chicken pox vaccine. So, it is important to find out ahead of time which vaccines are covered; if your insurance does not cover a certain vaccine, it might be possible to get a referral from your doctor to a public clinic or to get a low-cost dose from a government source that your own doctor could administer.
•For parents whose babies are covered by health insurance, the average out-of-pocket vaccine cost for the first year of life is $242, including copays for the four or five well baby visits where the shots usually are administered, according to one study published in the journal Pediatrics[2]

Free and low-cost vaccines

If you don’t have health insurance — or your plan’s out-of-pocket costs for vaccines aren’t affordable — you can still get vaccinated. There are ways to get vaccines for children and adults at a lower cost or for free. Here are some helpful resources.

The Vaccines for Children Program

The Vaccines for Children Program (VFC) provides all recommended vaccines at no cost for children under age 19 who:
Qualify for Medicaid
Don’t have insurance or can’t afford out-of-pocket insurance costs for vaccines
Are Native American or Alaskan Native

Learn more about the Vaccines for Children program.

https://www.vaccines.gov/getting/pay/index.html

[john70t]

There was supposedly a study of 1980's San Francisco Castro District gays who were believed overly-exposed(sex+multiple partners+drugs+whatever) to the HIV virus, and by all means of probability and statistics should have been fatally infected early on. From a genealogy test it turned out they were all descendants of European villages which had survived the Plague for the most part.

I would hazard a guess that this was partially from limited exposure and gradual adaptation to the virus, rather than them all being inbred cousins.

Genes have been found to be dynamic rather than static and influenced by our complimentary bacterial residents with whom we share our digestive tracts and even DNA. Limited exposure early in life allows that adaptation. Same as vaccines. Mass exposure and immigration allows overwhelming the immune system and death. Same as Democrats.

[Bugsinrugs]

On a side note. I went to Africa a couple weeks ago and had all the recommended shots. Maybe I didn’t need them but after talking to a gal that got malaria It didn’t sound like a risk worth taking.

[rfuerst911sc]

Vaccines are no different than many things in life there are no guarantees except death and taxes Yes there is risk with vaccinations just like there are risks in not getting them . For me and my family we believe the risks are low/tolerable so we got them and continue to get them . If you think otherwise more power to you ........... just take responsibility for your actions if things don't work out . How many of us get flu shots every year ? I know my wife and I do , it doesn't guarantee you won't get the flu but it gives an extra margin of immunity . For some that is worth it for others it is not .

Like any discussion in society or on a car website there are differing opinions with some folks having VERY STRONG opinions . If you are of the mind set of say a Jenny McCarthy she is very opposed to vaccinations , I guess she has her reasons for not having her child get them . If her decision is wrong she won't suffer the consequences her child will . That's where I have an issue . If an educated or for that matter an un-educated adult makes a bad or poor decision it is theirs . When they make it and it affects children that's a different story . Bottom line I am for vaccinations .

[sammyg2]

LOL the science is settled for some things, but not all.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

LOL the science is settled for some things, but not all.

Yea, for most people. We live in a world where thousands of people honestly and really believe the earth is flat, NASA faked the moon landings, and the Lizard people extraterrestrials run the world and eat human babies.

Many people still do not know or understand the sun does not revolve around the earth. They see a sunrise and sunset, and the sun must revolve around earth. In their weak minds it does.

[sammyg2]

Hey now, let's not be dissing the lizard people.

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Yea, for most people. We live in a world where thousands of people honestly and really believe the earth is flat, NASA faked the moon landings, and the Lizard people extraterrestrials run the world and eat human babies.