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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC911 View Post
^^^ This. With nothing but short term corporate mentality over the same span....mebbe three decades....and here we are....just more self-inflicted bs


My FIL was career Western Electric, AT&T, Bell Labs, Lucent, et al. negotiating with China to get in to their market. He said it was never about money but rather which parts of the equipment would be manufactured in China which would require a transfer of IP.


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Old 06-10-2019, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by URY914 View Post
Easier said than done my friend....
Not hard to do if you take a bit of time and are able to tell the difference between wants and needs. Other than food, drink and shelter... I NEED nothing that is produced in China. Are there things I want? Sure! Can I delay that purchase? Absolutely! There is power in being an informed consumer... the problem is too many consumers are too lazy.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RWebb View Post
or if you buy something that has the items (parts) in it - like a car

China has been cheating outright and/or gaming the system for decades - something needed to be done, tho not sure if this it

BTW, robots can manf. furniture...
I own seven cars now. They could drop like flies in a hard freeze before I'd NEED to buy another one. Parts? a bit harder to avoid but still doable. Avoiding tariffs isn't a hard thing to do once a person knows how to differentiate between wants and needs.
Delayed gratification? That's the debil talkin.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by cabmando View Post
I own seven cars now. They could drop like flies in a hard freeze before I'd NEED to buy another one. Parts? a bit harder to avoid but still doable. Avoiding tariffs isn't a hard thing to do once a person knows how to differentiate between wants and needs.

Delayed gratification? That's the debil talkin.

How about when the competing product manufactured elsewhere goes up in price because the demand is still there but the supply no longer is?

In the end, you still pay, itís just a question of whoís pockets the money dropped into.


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Old 06-10-2019, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by cabmando View Post
Not hard to do if you take a bit of time and are able to tell the difference between wants and needs. Other than food, drink and shelter... I NEED nothing that is produced in China. Are there things I want? Sure! Can I delay that purchase? Absolutely! There is power in being an informed consumer... the problem is too many consumers are too lazy.
Amen, I do this all the time, if something looks cool or interesting, but I really donít need it too bad and it is made in China, I put it back on the shelf. Just bought a plastic pitcher at the grocery store; didnít really need it, but it was made in the US and I wanted some Kool-aide!

Some things like this iPad Iím using I donít think have a US equivalent, so if I want to have it, I have to buy from China. Totally agree that I could live my life without it and I might even be better off.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:23 PM
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If there is a time to reign them in it is now.

Basically no inflation. A decent economy. Don't screw around like we have in the past. It is about some manageable short term pain for long term gain.
Old 06-10-2019, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest View Post
Amen, I do this all the time, if something looks cool or interesting, but I really donít need it too bad and it is made in China, I put it back on the shelf. Just bought a plastic pitcher at the grocery store; didnít really need it, but it was made in the US and I wanted some Kool-aide!

Some things like this iPad Iím using I donít think have a US equivalent, so if I want to have it, I have to buy from China. Totally agree that I could live my life without it and I might even be better off.
I may be wrong do not have time to look it up, I thought Samsung products were made in South Korea.

I do not think there are any devices like tablets and phones made in the USA, going to go look when I have a moment.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:50 PM
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Tariffs are only a tool used to achieve a long term solution. Yes, there are temporary effects, of course. In this case, equalized trade policy and tighter control of IP will ultimately strengthen our country. Short term market disruption is a small price to pay.
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Old 06-10-2019, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by wilnj View Post
How about when the competing product manufactured elsewhere goes up in price because the demand is still there but the supply no longer is?

In the end, you still pay, itís just a question of whoís pockets the money dropped into.


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Then I decide if I want the product or if I need the product. If I need it, I research it and find the best possible price for the item. The internet is a powerful tool and gives more power to the informed consumer.
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Chocaholic View Post
Tariffs are only a tool used to achieve a long term solution. Yes, there are temporary effects, of course. In this case, equalized trade policy and tighter control of IP will ultimately strengthen our country. Short term market disruption is a small price to pay.
But we can't have that short term disruption because we're an instant gratification society drunk on cheap **** and the DT's when coming down will kill us all!
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Old 06-10-2019, 02:22 PM
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I've paid around $10,000 in increased costs to manufacture my product since they were enacted. Even for my US-made parts, costs have risen.

Within the next month or two, a single component order will cost me an additional $1250.

Damn right it's a tax on us.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod View Post
I've paid around $10,000 in increased costs to manufacture my product since they were enacted. Even for my US-made parts, costs have risen.

Within the next month or two, a single component order will cost me an additional $1250.

Damn right it's a tax on us.
So you approve of sweat shop workers. You approve of non existent enviromental regulation. You approve of forced technology transfer. You approve of an expanding military dictatorship being funded by US dollars.
Old 06-10-2019, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sooner or later View Post
So you approve of sweat shop workers. You approve of non existent enviromental regulation. You approve of forced technology transfer. You approve of an expanding military dictatorship being funded by US dollars.
If it makes crap cheaper, then yes I approve, just give me cheap Shiot.
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Last edited by Jims5543; 06-10-2019 at 05:29 PM..
Old 06-10-2019, 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jims5543 View Post
If it makes crap cheaper, then yes I approve, just give me cheap Shiot.
That's the thing though, it doesn't make stuff cheaper. When I had a HVAC business a lot of my parts came from Indiana. When that production got moved to Mexico, my cost never dropped a penny.. Carrier made more money on each part I bought, but the cost never dropped as a result of them producing it using SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper labor. This nonsense of it making things cost less it just that... nonsense. What it does do is cost good paying jobs that give people more expendable income that then results in increased consumer spending.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by cabmando View Post
That's the thing though, it doesn't make stuff cheaper. When I had a HVAC business a lot of my parts came from Indiana. When that production got moved to Mexico, my cost never dropped a penny.. Carrier made more money on each part I bought, but the cost never dropped as a result of them producing it using SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper labor. This nonsense of it making things cost less it just that... nonsense. What it does do is cost good paying jobs that give people more expendable income that then results in increased spending.
Revised to green text.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:29 PM
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I knew it was meant that way. The problem is people think it makes goods cheaper. Maybe the knockoffs are cheaper but not so much the name brand things.
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Old 06-10-2019, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chocaholic View Post
Tariffs are only a tool used to achieve a long term solution. Yes, there are temporary effects, of course. In this case, equalized trade policy and tighter control of IP will ultimately strengthen our country. Short term market disruption is a small price to pay.
That "one trick pony" tool works BOTH ways....China will NOT be bullied...count on it.
Trump...that's his only MO....

China has a toolbox also...1T+ of US debt, and have already crippled many farmers....were it not for US taxpayer welfare .

Unintended consequences.....never appear in tweets however .

Last edited by KC911; 06-11-2019 at 02:33 AM..
Old 06-11-2019, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dennis in se pa View Post
Hope this does not belong in PARF. If so please move it.
If we impose tariffs on a foreign country they pay them = more money in our treasury. They then will pass the increased cost along to the consumer = us. The higher price we pay is then in effect the same as a tax increase on the consumer. Is my reasoning wrong somewhere?
A tariff is paid by the importer, not the exporter.

Yes it is a tax.


May 16, 2019
The Truth About Tariffs
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/truth-about-tariffs
Quote:
A tariff is a tax imposed on goods imported from a foreign country. Tariffs are paid by an importing business to its home countryís government, most commonly as a fixed percentage of the value of the imports.
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfeMacleod View Post
I've paid around $10,000 in increased costs to manufacture my product since they were enacted. Even for my US-made parts, costs have risen.

Within the next month or two, a single component order will cost me an additional $1250.

Damn right it's a tax on us.
It's people like you taking the hit, no guarantee that you will be able to pass on all of the additional costs to your customers, not to mention the frustration of explaining the increases and the affects on longer term delivery contracts at set prices.
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Old 06-11-2019, 02:43 AM
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A lot of these discussions feel like 2007...it's all good ...

When the yield curves are already wacky...

Let China "dump" 10% of OUR debt that they already own..on US ?

Tariffs will NOT bully China....nope!


'
Old 06-11-2019, 02:51 AM
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