Do tariffs on them = taxes on us?

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

So you approve of sweat shop workers. You approve of non existent enviromental regulation. You approve of forced technology transfer. You approve of an expanding military dictatorship being funded by US dollars.

Who knew we had a celebrity among us.

Next you'll be telling us we need to limit C-suite salaries and compensation packages and maybe open our borders.

What a funny thread this is.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by KC911

A lot of these discussions feel like 2007...it's all good ...

I was trying to figure out what you meant, so I did a little research.

This 2012 article is a fascinating introspective of what happened world wide in 2008.

January 17, 2012
How China’s Boom Caused the Financial Crisis
https://foreignpolicy.com/2012/01/17/how-chinas-boom-caused-the-financial-crisis/

But it was China, not the U.S. economy, that prospered on Americans’ spending binge (via refinancing mortgages).

Low interest rates................the source of the problem?

The large buildup of savings in China and other emerging economies (mostly oil exporters) depressed interest rates worldwide from 2004 on, as too much money was chasing U.S. Treasury bonds and other supposedly risk-free securities, driving up the price of bonds and driving down interest rates...................

While the subprime mortgages with exotic features did not help, it was these low long-term interest rates that were the most important factor in enlarging the housing bubble.

The following is a rationalization for decimating Americas middle class and reducing it to a smoldering stub.

And without China’s rise, inflation in the early 2000s would have been higher, propelling the Fed and the ECB into action. But more importantly, China and other emerging economies’ savings would not have depressed long-term interest rates worldwide.

But all is not lost. One consolation is that the past decade of loose living in the United States and Europe has done much to lift hundreds of millions of people in China and India out of poverty. No development aid program can stake a similar claim.

We lifted China and India out of poverty, and all it cost us was our middle class and manufacturing. What a great social program our leaders came up with, hey?

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by KC911

That "one trick pony" tool works BOTH ways....China will NOT be bullied...count on it.
Trump...that's his only MO....

China has a toolbox also...1T+ of US debt, and have already crippled many farmers....were it not for US taxpayer welfare .

Unintended consequences.....never appear in tweets however .

It takes the next two or three consumer markets combined to equal the spending by the US consumer market. Being the largest consumer market by far in spending, producers will want access. If China gets too out of line, there are producers waiting patiently for more access to our spending.
A dose of reality on American farmers... many didn't need the "taxpayer welfare". A bit more reality, the American farmer's reliance on GMO corn and beans has handcuffed them and limited the markets that will buy their products. They put their eggs in one big basked called China... it's their own fault.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by kach22i

It's people like you taking the hit, no guarantee that you will be able to pass on all of the additional costs to your customers, not to mention the frustration of explaining the increases and the affects on longer term delivery contracts at set prices.

Lots of folks have made good bank by buying cheaper goods/parts for their product manufactured elsewhere. If using a U.S. manufacturer that employs U.S. citizens and pays taxes cut their profits a bit or they have to pay a tariff for their purchases (allowing their neighbors to compete/have a job)...that is not a bad thing.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Lots of folks have made good bank by buying cheaper goods/parts for their product manufactured elsewhere. If using a U.S. manufacturer that employs U.S. citizens and pays taxes cut their profits a bit or they have to pay a tariff for their purchases (allowing their neighbors to compete/have a job)...that is not a bad thing.

You mean it's a good thing you are not taking the hit and someone else is?

Don't worry, the hit will get to you sooner or later even if you have been nursing off the government teat all your life.

[cabmandone]

Oh boo hoo... people made a decision to offshore production of goods, made a lot of money doing so and now are having to pay more... boo freekin hoo. Cry me a river.

[KFC911]

Three NC topics I know better than most here. Furniture manufactoring, Hog Farmers, and a couple of soybean farmers.

Tariffs....gimme a break .

Fooli$h too....

[1990C4S]

My supplier from China has cut prices 10% to offset the pain, and moved some manufacturing to Malaysia.

Even at 15% or 25% tariffs the local machine shops cannot compete with low cost countries. Best case I might have to buy from a different country, but the work is not coming back to America.

You can be quite sure that a lot of material from China will be shuffled through another country and the tariff will be avoided.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by 1990C4S

My supplier from China has cut prices 10% to offset the pain, and moved some manufacturing to Malaysia.

Even at 15% or 25% tariffs the local machine shops cannot compete with low cost countries. Best case I might have to buy from a different country, but the work is not coming back to America.

You can be quite sure that a lot of material from China will be shuffled through another country and the tariff will be avoided.

To me it is not about bringing jobs back. It is about an equal playing field.

The things we are passionate about and require of our US suppliers are ignored by our off shore suppliers.

We complain about a CEO or company placing short term gains over long term company health. Yet that is exactly what we do when ignore the low standards in place for our off shore suppliers.

China does everything they can to limit imports from our producers while they expect us to open our arms to their products.

We complain about US bailouts from 2008 while China does it on an ongoing basis. Read up on NIO.

[WolfeMacleod]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

So you approve of sweat shop workers. You approve of non existent enviromental regulation. You approve of forced technology transfer. You approve of an expanding military dictatorship being funded by US dollars.

I approve of me being able to purchase thousands of industry-standard component parts at a reasonable cost per piece, and to sell my product at a reasonable cost instead of $3-400 each. Apparently you didn't see that even my US-made components have risen in cost.

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

To me it is not about bringing jobs back. It is about an equal playing field.

I also approve of a small company being able to be competitive with larger companies in terms of production costs. There's your equal playing field for ya.

Originally Posted by kach22i

It's people like you taking the hit, no guarantee that you will be able to pass on all of the additional costs to your customers, not to mention the frustration of explaining the increases and the affects on longer term delivery contracts at set prices.

I haven't raised my prices since 2005 or 06.

[aschen]

Will the revenue help offset the increasing dept caused by reductions in tax and increased spending in any appreciable way? I care about this more than if a new TV costs $400 or $500.

[RWebb]

Foxconn just announced they can maintain the same volume, etc. w/out any manf. in China

LT, China will find out it is not essential

[widebody911]

Originally Posted by aschen

Will the revenue help offset the increasing dept caused by reductions in tax and increased spending in any appreciable way? I care about this more than if a new TV costs $400 or $500.

The cynic in me would say it was planned that way.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by kach22i

You mean it's a good thing you are not taking the hit and someone else is?

Don't worry, the hit will get to you sooner or later even if you have been nursing off the government teat all your life.

If you make money by helping export jobs of countrymen and helping your country's enemies...you should probably not be surprised when better leadership seeks to curb your ability to do so.

If you had not been such a yellow pussy, you could have served in the military as well. That welfare teat you live off of is the true government teat...as, unlike the military...you actually earn none of the "other people's money" redistributed to you.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by kach22i

. . .
Don't worry, the hit will get to you sooner or later even if you have been nursing off the government teat all your life.

Originally Posted by fintstone

. . .
If you had not been such a yellow pussy, you could have served in the military as well. That welfare teat you live off of is the true government teat...as, unlike the military...you actually earn none of the "other people's money" redistributed to you.

Dayuuumnnn, I miss being able to read and post in PARF - fookin' rarefied entertainment!

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

So you approve of sweat shop workers. You approve of non existent enviromental regulation. You approve of forced technology transfer. You approve of an expanding military dictatorship being funded by US dollars.

He probably approves of staying in business and feeding his family. The pain of these tariffs is not equally distributed. While consumers may pay an extra $20 for a set of tires, Farmers and small manufacturers are seeing their livelihood disappear. If you want to berate someone for not curing the world’s ills try someone who is minimally impacted and yet still complains.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by KC911

A lot of these discussions feel like 2007...it's all good ...

When the yield curves are already wacky...

Let China "dump" 10% of OUR debt that they already own..on US ?

Tariffs will NOT bully China....nope!


'

I’m afraid you are right. Chinese leadership is relatively immune to public opinion. Their president is president for life. The Chinese people have suffered in the past and will be forced to suffer in the future if it’s necessary. National pride will not allow them to be bullied.
On the other hand, We have an election in 18 months and the Chinese know it. If the tariffs cause enough pain here we will elect a regime that will end them. China has little incentive to knuckle under to Trump and every incentive to maximize the pain from the tariffs. This is a war they will win.

[Sooner or later]

China ain't the good guys.

You put together a list of things that are important and China is going to be on rhe wrong side of the equation. It is that damn simple.

Free or fair trade. Not China. Forced tech transfer and joint ventures if you want to build a factory. 15% tariff of autos. They force us to jump through hoops to get a tiny foothold but want easy access to our markets.
Enviromental standards? Lowering CO2? Not China
Less military spending? Their goal is to be the power by 2050 and using our money.
Fair wages and a safe workplace? Forget it.
Open press with no censorship? Laughable.

We don't want to acknowledge the facts. We would rather not know. We just want lower cost. We want to hold our on shore companies to the highest standards and rhen turn our backs on those same standards when it comes to offshore production.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by fintstone

If you make money by helping export jobs of countrymen and helping your country's enemies...you should probably not be surprised when better leadership seeks to curb your ability to do so.

If you had not been such a yellow pussy, you could have served in the military as well. That welfare teat you live off of is the true government teat...as, unlike the military...you actually earn none of the "other people's money" redistributed to you.

How come everything you write is a lie?

Do you ever ask yourself what would happen if you didn't lie?

Try it, just for a day.

It will change your life.

The truth shall set you free.

[kach22i]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

China ain't the good guys.

You put together a list of things that are important and China is going to be on rhe wrong side of the equation. It is that damn simple.

Free or fair trade. Not China. Forced tech transfer and joint ventures if you want to build a factory. 15% tariff of autos. They force us to jump through hoops to get a tiny foothold but want easy access to our markets.
Enviromental standards? Lowering CO2? Not China
Less military spending? Their goal is to be the power by 2050 and using our money.
Fair wages and a safe workplace? Forget it.
Open press with no censorship? Laughable.

We don't want to acknowledge the facts. We would rather not know. We just want lower cost. We want to hold our on shore companies to the highest standards and rhen turn our backs on those same standards when it comes to offshore production.

Good post.

Tariffs, a tax paid by the importers will do nothing to address that laundry list of China's shortcomings.

Also shifting production from Mexico, to China, to Malaysia, to India and finally to Vietnam will do nothing to help American manufacturing.

This is all theater, and the ticket price to watch the show is being paid for by everyday Americans like farmers and small businesses dependent on international trade.

I do not make a living off-shoring work and have never profited from it. I do know for a fact that the person imposing these tariffs has done exactly that, and so has his daughter.

December 4, 2018
Only 15% of the products in the Trump store are made in the US
https://qz.com/1483890/how-many-donald-trump-products-are-made-in-the-usa/

After Nabisco sent some factory jobs from the US to Mexico in 2016, Trump responded by saying he would no longer eat Oreos, a Nabisco product. His own products, according to a 2016 Washington Post investigation, are made in 12 foreign countries: China, Mexico, India, Turkey, Slovenia, Honduras, Germany, Bangladesh, Indonesia, the Netherlands, Vietnam, and South Korea.

The entire topic isn't about politics or even economics, this topic is "entertainment", it's theater.

I hope everyone is entertained, new ticket prices to be announced shortly.