Federal Re-opening guidance

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

I am a firm believer in data to make decisions , in my opinion we currently don't have enough data ( testing ) to make solid decisions.

I agree with that.
Although i suppose one could argue that we didn’t have enough data to justify the extreme measures of blanket shutting down the entire country, throwing millions into unemployment, bankrupting companies and going in the hole $5 trillion so suddenly.

[Sooner or later]

Originally Posted by McLovin

I agree with that.
Although i suppose one could argue that we didn’t have enough data to justify the extreme measures of blanket shutting down the entire country, throwing millions into unemployment, bankrupting companies and going in the hole $5 trillion so suddenly.

China, who doesn't give a damn about an individual, shut down (really shut down) Wuhan for more than 2 months.

They knew what was happening in Wuhan and didn't react on a whim.

[Crowbob]

The chicoms didn’t shut down their entire ****-hole country, though. They should. Or we should do it for them.

[McLovin]

Originally Posted by Sooner or later

China, who doesn't give a damn about an individual, shut down (really shut down) Wuhan for more than 2 months.

They knew what was happening in Wuhan and didn't react on a whim.

Did they shut down their entire country and economy in a blanket manner like we did?
As a percentage of their annual country budget and revenue, how much debt/spending have they done?
In the neighborhood of 100% like we’ve done?

(Those are not rhetorical questions, I don’t know the answers).

[McLovin]

I do some business with Shenzhen factories. They closed down for Chinese New Year, then for a few weeks after that because of the virus, but I was surprised at how quickly they were back and running.

[Sooner or later]

Our lockdowns are light compared to Wuhan. They stopped all traffic in and out for two months. Could we have done that in New York City for two months?

They track every citizen with a phone app. Green and you have normal access. Yellow and limited movement allowed. Red and you go nowhere and park your butt at home, Do we want that type of mandatory tracking so we can open up as they have?

[McLovin]

But Wuhan is a tiny area in a huge country.
Also I don’t know if doing anything based on what was supposedly happening or not happening in China is based on “good data.”
I don’t know what was going on there. It seems like no one outside of China really knows.
I just googled trying to find some info and it all seems speculative and untrustworthy.
From what I see, China says that in their 2 political and financial headquarters (Shanghai and Beijing) there’s been a total of around 15 deaths.
Their country seems mostly back on their feet and from what I’ve seen (which may or may not be true), they’ve spent almost nothing on “stimulus” and it’s cost them literally pennies on the dollar compared to us.

[Sooner or later]

Wuhan city is bigger than NYC. 11 million. It was COMPLETELY shut down. No movement in or out other than necessary commerce to keep people from starving.

[Sooner or later]

China GDP growth went negative 6.8% in the first quarter. Down from a positive 6% in 4th Q of 2019.

They knew of the disaster that was brewing and took unprecedented action to keep it from happening to the rest of the country.

You are greatly underestimating the harm done to their economy by actions we would never initiate.

[Sooner or later]

I hope you are looking for new supply sources outside of the lying, cheating, stealing country known as China.

[McLovin]

Yes, I’m done with China.

[aigel]

It is challenging to reopen without sufficient testing. The death rates and hospitalizations show up 2-3 weeks after infection. This delay will allow a runaway situation to develop and then requiring extreme measures to slow the spread. Contact tracing is also not possible if you have to wait for hospitalization or death. All we can do is slowly turn it on and be ready to turn it back off quickly ...

One thing I don't get is how eager people are to get folks back into mass events, sports, restaurants, MOVIE THEATERS!??? Don't we want people to get back to their manufacturing and construction jobs first? I think we can turn a lot of that on safely by distancing, small teams etc.

Fingers crossed!

G

[island911]

Originally Posted by aigel

It is challenging to reopen without sufficient testing. ...
G

That's the latest talking point.

Thing is, It is challenging to NOT reopen.

[aigel]

Easy does it IMHO. Nobody says we shouldn't try. I also think we can get a good picture on infection status with much smaller sampling of a population, if it is done with statisticians that know what they are doing.

[island911]

SARS1 did not go around the world like this one did.

Recent testing suggests that this has been in MUCH more of the population than previously thought.

Opening up won't drive up deaths unless those at high risk live like there is low risk. --That is on them.

Taking away the freedom of people with healthy immune systems does what? Makes the nervous Nellies feel like they are #Getting through this together.?

You are either for freedom and personal responsibility or you are not.

Right now The Swedes win our motto. The one we are not using anymore, apparently. --Land of the free, home of the brave.

[island911]

[aigel]

HAHA! I guess some of you PARFers are frothing at the mouth to have a new audience here due to COVID and just can't contain yourselves! Signing off from this one ...

G

[island911]

There are so many political threads in OT --this Federal re-opening included-- that is is hard to know what section I'm in.

Well, other than all the usual OT virtue signalling ninniness.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by aigel

It is challenging to reopen without sufficient testing. The death rates and hospitalizations show up 2-3 weeks after infection.

It's a challenge that can be met. Our governor is way ahead of the feds and announced a much more comprehensive plan for reopening before the fed plan was announced. While Washington dithered Ohio was getting ready to move ahead.
Ohio closed non-essential businesses in Mid-March and started a program to monitor and test workers in the essential industries to get an idea how factories can safely operate with limited testing available. So far even in meat packing plants he has been able to avoid the debacles in Alberta and South Dakota. He plans to open some non-essential plants around May 1st and monitor workers and test when possible in the same way. Unfortunately I haven't heard of any such program for retail workers.
Ohio State also did a study of prison inmates in 25 prisons in the states. Of 31716 inmates, 692 tested positive and 39% of those had no symptoms. So we know a fair number of asymptomatic people are carriers. To what extent the asymptomatic pass on the virus hasn't been studied.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by aigel

HAHA! I guess some of you PARFers are frothing at the mouth to have a new audience here due to COVID and just can't contain yourselves! Signing off from this one ...

Oh, I think it's ONE PARFer who consitently shows up to crap on a thread. He is just so full of himself he can't let a civil discussion go on without him. He doesn't get enough attention on PARF and has to bring it here. You don't have to read every post. I just skip his.