Really. Then explain how people have antibodies to this virus.

read: people can be carrying and non-contagious, because their immune system works.

It could have a second wave due to seasonality, or due to control measures being lifted or failing - see Singapore etc

That's what I'm expecting, we lift and things ramp up a bit.

Having antibodies is not the same thing as being actively infected.

Asymptomatic infected persons shed virus, despite being, well, asymptomatic. Something about them makes the disease so mild that they don’t notice anything wrong. But they are shedding virus all the same, for the first phase of their infection, until their immune systems get control of the infection. There is a second phase when they are recovering and not shedding much, again they don’t know anything is going on. Afterwards, they will have antibodies which will be how they learn they ever had the disease.

Bummer to come in contact with them when they are shedding.

Can people with a cold or flu virus be asymptomatic? Do we lock everyone up so that people with vulnerable immune systems don't die from them?

There will be peaks and valleys of course but as time goes on we are increasingly more immune (more and more people have been exposed to this - there’s research starting to come out showing that it’s possible that MANY more people have been exposed to it and were / are asymptomatic than originally thought). So do you quarantine people that have already had it too? That’s just crazy. At some point this has to end. We can’t allow the entire country’s economy to be deliberately tossed into the toilet just to satisfy one political party’s agenda.

I’ve said all along that the initial steps taken were justifiable as an immediate, short term way to “flatten the curve” and avoid overwhelming the healthcare system. They’re NOT a long term solution (nor are they constitutional, but that’s another discussion...) Government can’t be allowed to take the lazy / zero-effort “zero tolerance” route and simply close everything and tell everyone to sit at home as their livelihoods and savings slip away. That’s idiocy.

Even if you don’t believe there are forces more odious at work behind this now to keep the closures and pain going (and I for one definitely DO), it’s becoming unjustifiable. Government has a responsibility to come up with new guidelines to reopen safely with controlled risk, not just vapidly say “just close everything - were good” and pat themselves on the back for a job well done. We should DEMAND to know where the reopening guidelines are and force them to work tirelessly FOR US to put them in place.

Lifting may cause a second wave. And maybe not. But the stay at home orders and shut-downs will not likely to reduce the number of infectious cases. What would be really stupid would be to dissassemble the field hospitals, reduce PPE production and distribution or any of the other projects that were initiated to treat the thousands and thousands of cases that never happened.

The shut-down was initiated to smooth the numbers that we were unprepared for, not reduce them. If we are better prepared (supposedly) why not lift?

I agree with P-O-P. This crisis has been deliberately morphed into a political operation.

Over the last 20 years 4,000 die on avg during month of April in NY city. Highest April death toll in those 20 years was 4607 in 2001. That is for all illnesses and accidents other than a terrorist act. So far, this April, NY city has 7,000 deaths coded as Covid-19.

It ain't a cold. It ain't the flu.

And in my county we have had 3 deaths and 81 total cases, 6 of which are currently active. Yet we are locked up for our own good. That's the problem with one-size-fits all solutions. New York is in a state of emergency. We never were here.

I agree. NYC didn't take it seriously and let it get out of hand and you can see where it got them. I am just tired of people comparing it to a cold or the flu. NYC clearly shows it is far more of a threat. For the month of April it alone could end up having twice the number of deaths than heart attacks, cancer, flu, accidents, murder, and every other cause of death combined.

Another sycophant under the bus.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/trump-georgia-governor-kemp-coronavirus.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories &pgtype=Homepage
Yet, someone keeps goading the "let's open it up" morons.

Let's Kill Grandma

So are you out licking door handles?

We have become an impatient society. Most states have been under social distancing orders for less than a month. Your state is seeing 100 Covid deaths a day. Your curve is one of the steepest in the country, and isn’t flattening. Given your job, you’re probably not suffering financially. Yet you’re acting like its “Red Dawn”. Yes, your state needs to communicate what criteria it will use to decide when and how to lift the restrictions, so people can assess the actions. Whatever criteria they are, I suspect you’re not there - not with IL’s curve as steep and linear as it is.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1587612639.png

Bold mine. (and my point. Although I would strike the word "much." )

How I would say it: There is a second phase when they are carrying the virus but their immune response has stopped the shedding of the live virus.

Hard for a governor to get much guidance from the White House, so many conflicting messages are being sent. It feels like a game of buck passing. Rail against shutdowns, encourage protestors, then when a governor takes the cue, kick him under the bus, heads I win, tails you lose. If it goes badly, I told you not to, if it goes well, I was right there with you.

I am interested in the experiments that Georgia and others are doing in reopening now. The health consequences will be interesting to see, but also the business consequences. Will consumers actually come back to restaurants, will large companies end WFH, how much faith will people actually have that their safety is assured?

When saving grandma is the only goal... (it's not)

Then we are told that there is but one solution... (there's not)

All sorts of people still have heart conditions, diabetes, high BP, inflamed gallbladders...... and they avoid going to hospital.

Clearly RWebb wants them dead.

Who is "Let's"? The Chinese government, or the American people?

You would form an outward-facing circular firing squad to bring this killer to justice?

After all, "stay at home" is not going to "save Grandma". It will delay the exposure, which is going to happen no matter what. That is the purpose behind social distancing. You need to wake up and finally get it. It will be up to Grandma to save herself until the only thing that CAN save her is invented by medical technology - a vaccine that works.

The ONLY ROLE THAT GOVERNMENT POLICY CAN HAVE is to try not to kill the rest of us, by relaxing some of the Draconian, disproportionate measures that you no-think types seem to champion.

"Lock them up!" "Lock them up!"

BTW "them" are people not wearing a piece of cotton underwear over the lower half of their face. THAT, my friends, is how much hysteria is being indulged. Heaven forbid anyone have any logic or common sense in this orgy of fear and Kabuki theater, political showmanship. It is, after all, an election year.

" people not wearing a piece of cotton underwear over the lower half of their face."

:D

well, we all know how well a piece of cotton underwear holds back farts from propagating. That's why I wear a second layer of cotton.

The way I see it, we're all going to die anyway.

Some fraction of 1% will die early from the Corona virus.

Is it worth destroying 99.7% of the rest of society, their businesses, homes, retirement, and their employees' lives, homes, and make them wards of the State?

Nope. Life is going to have risk. We're still all lucky bastards even if a few of us or our parents croak early because of this thing. No reason to hit the nuclear war KILL button on the entirety of an economy that took hundreds of years to build. If you die, do it without fanfare and drama. No reason to end our entire free market way of life. No reason to just give the State so much control over our lives and our futures. No reason to be made to live like a damn helpless baby bird waiting with mouth agape for a crumb to be fed to us. Not long ago, the prevailing view would be that the American dream is the thing that must live on, even if we individuals must die. Somehow this generation has taken the opposite view. Pathetic.

^ sanity ^

none of us get out of this alive.

The 'ideal world' of Island must be great. Unfortunately, for everyone else reality gets in the way. Anyone carrying the virus is shedding the virus. Sorry, but that's the way it is.

I thought this was already discussed ad nauseum in another thread?
Regardless, thank you - you've done a great job of illustrating the point. First, she simply wasn't in 'complete' lock down was she. You said yourself, she got the virus from a food delivery. Extremely unlucky. Also, you're right, she didn't break the rules. But she also AVOIDED GIVING IT TO ANYONE ELSE because she followed the rules.

oh mah gawwwd this is our PEARL HARBOR MOMENT and EVERYTHING WE DO is BIBLICAL because my world is THAT IMPORTANT and I want the world to STOP SPINNING so I can go run home and HIDE in my sofa fort with toilet paper and a big back of cheesy puffs and wear my PJs all day.....

Right, you pants-wetters? Calm yourself the F down and get back to work. Your parents too. Jeezus.

Yeah!!

With as little as is known about this, y'all are pretty authoritative. We don't know if you develop immunity after having it, seems that would be important in a conversation about development of a vaccine. Common cold, is that the sort of thing you can have more than once? I am guessing yes, or they come up with a different name for it. I am inclined to think we will get this more than once, or it mutates to get past the immune system down the road.

Bottom line is there are folks messing around with viruses and are not being as meticulous as they should be with their lab practices. Eventually they come up with a genie that can't be stopped, and civilization goes back to the monkeys, like in Planet of the Apes.

We used to go the other direction on this sort of deal
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nOc5K3gZREg" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Apparently there is a huge concentration in New York of people with vulnerable immune systems. But the rest of the country is locked up to protect them.

https://www.foxnews.com/health/nearly-all-ny-coronavirus-patients-suffered-underlying-health-issue-study-finds

The doctors here seem to have a point of view.

I have no issue with localizing restrictions. Y'all open the gates if you want, I just have 2 requests-you can't ban travel in, but you have to ban travel out for a quarantine period.

Oh yeah, and this "harmless" virus is now cause to ban ALL immigration? Can't have it both ways.

The government has no legitimate authority to lock healthy people in their homes. The fact that anyone thinks this okay is incredibly disturbing.

Good to know!!!!
As a nation only about 38% of adults have those underlying conditions!

About four in ten adults (37.6%) ages 18 and older in the U.S. (92.6 million people) have a higher risk of developing serious illness if they become infected with coronavirus, due to their older age (65 and older) or health condition (Figure 1; Table 1).

Just over half of those at higher risk of developing a serious illness are ages 65 and older (55.2% or 51.1 million adults); however, the remaining 41.4 million adults ages 18-64 are at risk due to an underlying medical condition.


https://www.kff.org/global-health-policy/issue-brief/how-many-adults-are-at-risk-of-serious-illness-if-infected-with-coronavirus/

Which states or cities have locked people in their homes?

I just don't understand why Legion and gooz just don't go about their business.

What is the worst that happens? They get a fine. I'm sure like most they drive above the speed limit too.

I for one am quite curious as to how they are being downtrodden. What is it you cannot do? Is there no way to modify your jobs to work?

I personally shut down and moved equipment from a military base to where I would have access to it all by my lonesome... just because the base got locked down and I would not have access.

We've got doctors in their fifties dying of Covid-19 here, would you say it's not worth it to protect them?

You keep saying that this is less bad than a common cold, something which is patently not true, and it's much more contagious, so you're deluded if you think it will not reach your community. I think people dying alone at home or in a hospital corridor before being buried in a trench is something we should avoid, no?

This virus isn't going away. The lockdown is security theater. If anyone thinks they can control this thing, they are being arrogant.

You know it's an election year when people tell me to protect doctors by staying at home. You are going to be exposed to it, period. Whether that means you die or not is not a matter of government policy.

I'm amazed at some of the things I read on the this board. First wave no where as bad?

Legion, come to NYC and if you have the balls go into the hospitals and see what is going on.

My niece is the director of the ER in a Brooklyn hospital that is like a war zone.

I am hearing horrifying stories from the building engineers in the city hospitals that my company works with everyday. My company has the JOCs contract for plumbing for the NYC Heath & Hospitals Corp. I have seen multiple reefer trailers parked outside of hospitals to hold the bodies until the completely overwhelmed funeral homes can take care of the huge demand.

Tell my wife that it wasn't so bad when she lost her brother this week or my co-worker who had is wife on a ventilator for 20 days and is still in rough shape, or my neighbor that lost a daughter.

Lots of smart people on this board saying a lot of stupid things since they all believe that the fearless leader. He has no clue as to what is going on or how to lead this country.

^ that's really awful and very sad.

But your outrage should be directed at the Chinese. Not the President.

Furthermore, how does anything that is written here have any relation to what is going on in your home town? How does social distancing and locking down prevent the virus from spreading eventually?

Can you stipulate that at best, the government lockdown is slowing the spread, or is it your belief that social distancing will actually halt the spread of this insidious virus?

Mike. You nailed it. They're some brave keyboard warriors, as long as "other people" take care of it.

Last Sunday's 60 Minutes had a story about NYNY. If I remember correctly they have 200 reefer trailers being used to store victims with more on standby. 200!