HELP! Plumbing problem that should be simple

masraum · 02:07 PM

We're in a new house with septic. The drains have been working great until yesterday. We had a small wedding here in mid-March, and have had 6-15 adults in the house at a time with no issues. All of the plumbing is in one end, almost a corner of the house, and it drains to a septic system. All of the plumbing is sched 40, and probably max 30 yrs old, maybe newer.

Upstairs bathroom sink and toilet, downstairs bathroom, sink, shower, tub, toilet and kitchen sink. They all clog (well, all of the downstairs stuff, I haven't run enough to clog the upstairs, and I'm not going to try) which makes me think it's in the run to the septic or the septic itself.

Bathroom sink meets shower drain ~1'. That shower that's ~6-7' from a tub. The drain from the shower connects to the drain for the tub in a T, and shortly there after, it takes a right turn, and ~7' over, the downstairs toilet joins the fun which then runs into a 90º elbow down to the main line. The upstairs toilet and sink then join the party, maybe 3' back from the downstairs toilet on the main line. The whole shebang then hits the main pipe to the septic tank. From the opposite side, the kitchen sink hits the main line to the septic at about the same spot as the other drain. The septic tank is ~13' from the wall of the house, so the distance to where all of the drains hit the pipe is probably max 15' from the septic tank. I've got a 25', ¼" snake. I have run the snake out to it's max 2 or 3 times. I don't think I run into what seems like any major obstructions. I just pulled the lid off of the first tank and saw that at least 1' of the snake was protruding from the end of the PVC in the septic tank which was several inches above the top of the "water" in the tank. I was able to grab the end of the snake, and with my wife inside, we were able to easily pull the snake back and forth by at least 1' in a sawing motion.

So if I can get the snake through, and the end of the pipe in the septic system just has a trickle of clear water running into the septic tank, WTF?

top of photo, drain from bathroom sink right to left to shower, left edge of photo, J trap at shower. Back ground shows the drain from the tub where the toilet meets it going left to right, and on the very right edge, you can just see the 90º elbow down to the main line.

This shows where the upstairs bathroom meets the main line to the septic, and then the downstairs bathroom line has the 90º elbow down to the line from the left, and from the right in the background you can see the smaller pipe coming from the kitchen sink which looks like it might be a little low.

The septic line runs from under the house, probably under the AC unit.

I didn't take a pic of the main line in the septic tank when I had the lid off. But this is a reasonable facsimile of what it looked like. It's a PVC pipe out of the top side of the tank, in our case, several inches above the stuff in the tank. The top of the tank closest to the house is a mass of stuff that's full of drain fly larva.

Rough approximation

Thoughts or suggestions?

oldE · 05-04-2021, 02:07 PM

Have you had the septic tank pumped out in the past three years?
Your field may be clogged which would reduce the ability of your system to get rid of the higher volume of effluent.
You may need to rebuild or extend the field.
Best
Les

sprio · 05-04-2021, 02:12 PM

vent pipe clear? air behind water ........

masraum · 05-04-2021, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldE

Have you had the septic tank pumped out in the past three years?
Your field may be clogged which would reduce the ability of your system to get rid of the higher volume of effluent.
You may need to rebuild or extend the field.
Best
Les

No, but since the inlet coming into the tank is hanging in mid air inches above the effluent, would that be the current issue? If water won't drain out of the downstairs toilets and sinks, but the end of the pipe in the tank is hanging in mid air, and we even tried flushing when the lid was off, but nothing came out but a trickle.

I wish I had something larger that I could run up the main pipe from the septic side to see if I ran into anything, but I wouldn't want to push anything farther up the pipes either.

masraum · 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprio

vent pipe clear? air behind water ........

Hmm, there has been a glugging sound. I guess I need to find the vent pipe.

Presumably that's the vent up towards the right?

oldE · 05-04-2021, 02:25 PM

Is the sinks which won't drain upstream of the toilet?
Could be a mass (or mess) between the toilet and the line going to the septic tank.
It might be easiest to pop the toilet off and see if you can clear the blockage from there.
Best
Les

Jolly Amaranto · 05-04-2021, 02:28 PM

So where are you running your snake from. I see a cleanout in one of the photos where the arrow is. If that line is clear, then maybe the blockage is in the line with the X.

mattdavis11 · 05-04-2021, 02:42 PM

I'm guessing your leach field has back filled the tank and line. Its been pretty wet lately. I have had over 6 inches of rain in the past several days, you can't be too far off that total.

dad911 · 05-04-2021, 02:51 PM

You can tap the pipes to see if they sound solid or hollow, to find out where the blockage is.

That tank you pictured needs a baffle. There should be baffles at the inlet and outlet of the tank.

masraum · 05-04-2021, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldE

Is the sinks which won't drain upstream of the toilet?
Could be a mass (or mess) between the toilet and the line going to the septic tank.
It might be easiest to pop the toilet off and see if you can clear the blockage from there.
Best
Les

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolly Amaranto

So where are you running your snake from. I see a cleanout in one of the photos where the arrow is. If that line is clear, then maybe the blockage is in the line with the X.

Everything that's red is clogged (and flushing an upstairs toilet caused backup into the tub yesterday). And I've run the snake the path of the blue line, so it's gone from the downstairs toilet to the septic tank. I've actually seen the snake in the septic tank.

Yes, it was very rainy and wet. But I'd assume that if the tank isn't full over the top of the inlet pipe, that I should still have water draining into the tank, right?

stevej37 · 05-04-2021, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad911

That tank you pictured needs a baffle. There should be baffles at the inlet and outlet of the tank.

^^^ This.
I noticed the same thing. Mine broke off once and I had problems.

masraum · 05-04-2021, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dad911

You can tap the pipes to see if they sound solid or hollow, to find out where the blockage is.

That tank you pictured needs a baffle. There should be baffles at the inlet and outlet of the tank.

Yes, I'd noticed the baffle thing when searching for that photo online. Mine does NOT have a baffle. It's just a pipe hanging out of the side of the top of the tank. But, in this case, the pipe is several inches above the effluent, so I would assume the baffle would not be impacting this issue.

I really don't want to crawl all of the way under the house to the pipes, but I may have to.

masraum · 05-04-2021, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum

Hmm, there has been a glugging sound. I guess I need to find the vent pipe.

Presumably that's the vent up towards the right?

I ran 25' of snake down the vent and then pulled it back out. When I came back in everything looked drained, but when I ran the water, some of the sinks made glugging noises, and eventually, the kitchen sink backed up a little. It's draining, but slowly.

Shouldn't there be a cap on the vent on the roof? It's just wide open to the sky which doesn't seem like a great idea to me.

Jolly Amaranto · 05-04-2021, 03:14 PM

"Shouldn't there be a cap on the vent on the roof?"
No, what little rain that falls into the opening will not be a problem. Your septic system should handle it. Sounds like there is a restriction of some sort in the big pipe flowing to the tank. The snake makes it past it but lots of water backs up and only allows a trickle. Remove that big cleanout plug under the house and run a rotating rooter straight through to the tank. You can get these at Lowes or Home Depot. Gona have to get down and dirty in the crawl space.

Jolly Amaranto · 05-04-2021, 03:21 PM

Or you can run it up from the septic tank.

Pazuzu · 05-04-2021, 03:26 PM

How long was the house empty?

When we moved in to our place it was empty for a year. They had all PVC work done a decade earlier, nice job. BUT...the last people who used the toilets (probably the painting crew) ended up leaving...stuff...about 40 feet down the main drain trunk. It flushed that far then started to solidify, then turned to cement sitting in the heat for a year. 4 months of us living there had no problem, but it took 4 months for that small solid mass to accumulate stuff, until it completely clogged. We need someone with a long powered snake to fix it. Once we got that cleared, never had a problem since because the line gets flushed regularly. If you don't add showers and sink usage, then the last dude's poop remains forever.

masraum · 05-04-2021, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolly Amaranto

"Shouldn't there be a cap on the vent on the roof?"
No, what little rain that falls into the opening will not be a problem. Your septic system should handle it.

OK, I was thinking that leaves or insects/animals could cause issues, but it seemed pretty clean/clear from up on the roof looking down.

Quote:

Sounds like there is a restriction of some sort in the big pipe flowing to the tank. The snake makes it past it but lots of water backs up and only allows a trickle. Remove that big cleanout plug under the house and run a rotating rooter straight through to the tank. You can get these at Lowes or Home Depot. Gona have to get down and dirty in the crawl space.

OK, so the theory is that the 1/4" snake is screwing it's way through but not doing the trick.

I guess what you're saying I need is something like one of these?

masraum · 05-04-2021, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jolly Amaranto

Or you can run it up from the septic tank.

I've got one of those, 25' long, basically the same thing, except that the one that I have can be chucked into a drill (which I've done).

masraum · 05-04-2021, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

How long was the house empty?

When we moved in to our place it was empty for a year. They had all PVC work done a decade earlier, nice job. BUT...the last people who used the toilets (probably the painting crew) ended up leaving...stuff...about 40 feet down the main drain trunk. It flushed that far then started to solidify, then turned to cement sitting in the heat for a year. 4 months of us living there had no problem, but it took 4 months for that small solid mass to accumulate stuff, until it completely clogged. We need someone with a long powered snake to fix it. Once we got that cleared, never had a problem since because the line gets flushed regularly. If you don't add showers and sink usage, then the last dude's poop remains forever.

I don't think it's been empty. The wife of the PO was out here 3-4 days a week. She kept her horses on the property and brought her dogs. There are doggy scratch marks on some of the doors and the house was being used pretty much right up until closing.

dad911 · 05-04-2021, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by masraum

Yes, I'd noticed the baffle thing when searching for that photo online. Mine does NOT have a baffle. It's just a pipe hanging out of the side of the top of the tank. But, in this case, the pipe is several inches above the effluent, so I would assume the baffle would not be impacting this issue.

I really don't want to crawl all of the way under the house to the pipes, but I may have to.

If nothing is going into the tank, you have a blockage. Snake, Camera, or hire a pro. That's a job I won't DIY.

Baffle at the inlet forces the solids down. Baffle at the outlet keeps solids out of the field. That will cause very expensive damage.

Newer systems also have a filter at the exit, which is a good idea to retrofit.