Karma, it’s a b!tch.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

We are trying to understand "why" this young man was brandishing a firearm. "Why" he wound up "Dead". And why so many just like him do the same thing and wind up the same way. It's a horrible tragedy that unfolds many times, each and every day with young men just like him. Perhaps we would like to see it stop?

Fair enough. That's honrable. But I don't think his race has anything to do with it. For example, a person can just as well lump all motorcycle riders into gun toting scofflaw menace to society types. And that would be just as wrong IMO. My question is why he continued to threaten after he was told to lower his weapon. It's too bad that he did what he did, but the question of "why" can be asked about so many things, to pick just one is pointless.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Fair enough. That's honrable. But I don't think his race has anything to do with it. For example, a person can just as well lump all motorcycle riders into gun toting scofflaw menace to society types. And that would be just as wrong IMO. My question is why he continued to threaten after he was told to lower his weapon. It's too bad that he did what he did, but the question of "why" can be asked about so many things, to pick just one is pointless.

I'm agreeing with you over here, to balance out the other thread.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by black73

Yes, I deeply regret that my child never had the opportunity to watch me shoot a man dead. Nothing says love like homicide on the highway.

.....from an incident that I started either because I drive like schit or I wanted to teach an azzhole on a motorcycle not to split lanes.

Strange thread indeed....

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by speeder

I'm agreeing with you over here, to balance out the other thread.

I'm being really dry in the other thread. My attempt at sarcasm. Doesn't go as well in print because well...my charm works better with all of the subtle mojo of non-verbal expression.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by KC911

.....from an incident that I started either because I drive like schit or I wanted to teach an azzhole on a motorcycle not to split lanes.

Strange thread indeed....

Yes, indeed. My take on it is that people are pretty much just stressed out.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by rusnak

...my charm works better with all of the subtle mojo of non-verbal expression.

Massive skills we can't see.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by rusnak

I'm being really dry in the other thread. My attempt at sarcasm. Doesn't go as well in print because well...my charm works better with all of the subtle mojo of non-verbal expression.

I get it...all good. Sorry for taking the bait, if that is what I did.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by KC911

.....from an incident that I started either because I drive like schit or I wanted to teach an azzhole on a motorcycle not to split lanes.

Strange thread indeed....

Yep. If he was using a 6k lb. SUV against a MC as a blocking dummy, I'd want to shoot him as well. But the MC guy went about it all wrong.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by speeder

To be fair, most black people would not have responded in the way that he did, either.

Absolutely - I could not agree more.

Originally Posted by speeder

Why can't he just be a young person who used extremely poor judgement, which seems to affect young white males as well?

Yes, it does affect young white - and Asian, Hispanic, Native American, etc. males as well. Absolutely. Except, well, it affects - at a level of deadly violence such as this - young black males at a rate six times higher than everyone else. Six times. How could anyone, when presented with those statistics, not demand answers?

Originally Posted by speeder

Why throw in all of the racial schit, which always seems like taking a victory lap for racists? Like, "See! Another one....goddamn..."

The "racial schitt" is purely of your construction. Your perception that anyone is somehow celebrating this is sick beyond words. No one is happy about this. The fact is that some of us are fed up enough to seek a worthwhile, dispassionate discussion about what has led to this, with the goal being to someday find some answers that can make it stop. It appears that others are more than happy to see it continue while they virtue signal and accuse others, who would like to make this stop, of "racism".

Originally Posted by speeder

All of the mass shooters seem to be white. They just released the report on the Borderline Bar shooting from 2019 in the Los Angeles area, sure sounds like a white guy who can't get laid with anger management issues and lots of guns. Which of course should give anyone Deja Vu:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2021-07-03/mass-shooting-suspect-likely-targeted-borderline-bar-on-college-night-because-of-his-hatred-of-students

Yes, I think we all know that the vast majority of mass shooters are white. I'm sorry, though, I don't think your "whataboutism" contributes in any meaningful way to a conversation regarding what to do about young black men turning to gun violence at such a tremendous rate. Finding an answer to white mass shooters is unlikely to keep the young black men in our inner cities from murdering one another at this ungodly rate. Nor is it likely to alter the culture that has convinced young men like Mr. Gray that shooting someone is an appropriate response in situations in which most of the rest of us would agree it is unwarranted. That's what we're discussing here. Maybe you could start a thread about white mass shooters, and we can discuss that as well. It's certainly a worthwhile topic.

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

No, I did not miss your "point", not in the least. And I began this little tangent by addressing the "point" that both you and Denis were attempting to make - that this is a "gun problem", that it is a problem driven by the presence of so many guns in America. My assertion is that it is not - it is a problem that is very much more pronounced in a certain demographic, the one to which our perp/"victim" belongs.



And you would be absolutely wrong. We have poor white communities, poor Hispanic communities, poor Asian communities, and on and on - poor communities of any race and/or ethnicity you can name. None of them are as violent and murderous as our poor black communities. None. Yes, poverty does demonstrably lead to more crime - that much is undeniable. But the crime rates - particularly violent crime rates - are several fold higher in poor black communities than they are in any other poor communities. Several fold.

So, if you really want the bullets to stop flying, you need to try to understand what created one JaDerek Gray, because there are plenty more where he came from. Quit blaming guns, quit blaming law abiding gun owners. Blame the culture that created and nurtured young Mr. Gray. Find ways to address the problems that have engendered that culture. Until you can do that, another one is going to pop up right behind him, and another young life will be needlessly lost.

Calm down, I’m not disagreeing with you or challenging you to a d@#k measuring contest. I’m talking about this particular situation. I’m talking about people having a shootout on the freeway. I never said anything about banning guns or the like.

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Oh my God. Someone had to throw the race card.

Christ, the dude was brandishing a firearm. What part of "Dead" do you people not understand?

Consider the source. Higgs makes a valid, well thought out point and the pussycat firebombs it from left field.

I think that's what's normally referred to as "Tuesday".

[pmax]

Regardless, someone pulling over to the side of a major freeway to aim a weapon at another driver isn't an everyday occurence.

You sure this isn't national news worthy ?

[speeder]

Originally Posted by pmax

Regardless, someone pulling over to the side of a major freeway to aim a weapon at another driver isn't an everyday occurence.

You sure this isn't national news worthy ?

There is a ton of deadly road rage in America almost everyday. It's not even close to nationally news worthy. Murder is common. Where it happens is not a big factor.

[speeder]

And Higgins is conflating black-on-black gun crime with a road rage incident, just because one of the participants is black. That, I don't understand. All road rage violence is incredibly senseless and it's usually committed by white people, from my unscientific observation on youtube, etc...

The fact that the guy was black is irrelevant. I ride a MC on the street and I've momentarily wanted to stomp or shoot someone in a car a million times, I just have a little better impulse control, (and hopefully more sense), than this guy.

If you want start a thread where a bunch of old white guys try to solve inner-city gun violence, have at it. This has nothing to do with that.

[Jeff Higgins]

All I'm suggesting, Denis, is that the whole "thug life" sub culture that has permeated much of our country's young black population may have been at least somewhat responsible for this young man's possession of a gun and his eagerness to demonstrate how tough he was by threatening someone with that gun. We see this "thug life" celebrated in their music, their choices of role models and, ultimately, in their behavior that results in a violent death rate six times higher than everyone else's. Could this young man's behavior have been an attempt to emulate this "thug life"? I think that is entirely possible. That's all I'm saying. Too many of his contemporaries are dying in a similar fashion. It's worth exploring the reasons for this.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by speeder

There is a ton of deadly road rage in America almost everyday. It's not even close to nationally news worthy. Murder is common. Where it happens is not a big factor.

Except the now dead fella blocked the freeway, stopping traffic and went about an "execution style" routine almost as if this was one of those movies .... that ... we don't see everyday ... even in LA.

"Gray passed several cars and parked his motorcycle, blocking the northbound traffic — then reportedly began walking back toward the SUV while pointing a handgun at the driver."

You're right in the sense that no one GAF about the day to day road rage incidents but as I alluded to earlier, the existence of this thread and the apparent, still reading thru all the posts, heated discussion across the nation, correction world, as is representative by the members of the house here also bolsters my impression.

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Yes, I think we all know that the vast majority of mass shooters are white.

Nope. Another Media lie.
(just what are they trying to accomplish)

Adjust for demographics again:
https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2019/08/51-mass-shooters-2019-were-black-only-29-were-daniel-greenfield/
51% of Mass Shooters in 2019 Were Black: Only 29% Were White. No, mass shootings are not a “white man’s” problem. Tue Aug 6, 2019. Daniel Greenfield. Daniel Greenfield, a Shillman Journalism Fellow at the Freedom Center, is an investigative journalist and writer focusing on the radical Left and Islamic terrorism.

https://www.amren.com/commentary/2019/06/most-mass-shooters-are-black/
https://www.liberalforum.org/topic/340948-most-mass-shooters-are-black/
https://www.thetrace.org/2020/09/mass-shootings-2020-gun-violence-black-neighborhoods/

[oldE]

Might it be fair to say the pistol represented power to this (and many other) young man? He chose to exercise his power and met with a greater power.
It seems too many people suck at conflict resolution. We see it to an extent here on this board when misunderstandings quickly escalate into rage and frustration due to separation and the limited communication tools at our disposal.
Road rage and going postal are manifestations of individuals inability to deal with slights or injuries (real or perceived) in a constructive way. So is Ban Island. The scale is vastly different, but the principle remains.
Best
Les

[recycled sixtie]

When one dude has a handgun and another has a handgun the odds of getting hurt or killed are fifty percent. Most of the perps have victory disease and think they will win. Just plain dumb.

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by speeder

And Higgins is conflating black-on-black gun crime with a road rage incident, just because one of the participants is black. That, I don't understand. All road rage violence is incredibly senseless and it's usually committed by white people, from my unscientific observation on youtube, etc...

The fact that the guy was black is irrelevant. I ride a MC on the street and I've momentarily wanted to stomp or shoot someone in a car a million times, I just have a little better impulse control, (and hopefully more sense), than this guy.

If you want start a thread where a bunch of old white guys try to solve inner-city gun violence, have at it. This has nothing to do with that.

I used to carry a pocket full of pennies to throw at cars that almost killed me on my bike. I’ve calmed down quite a bit since my younger days thankfully. Road rage seems to be a life or death decision these days.