Karma, it’s a b!tch.

[black73]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

.....My hope is that by discussing his tragic death, and others roughly paralleling his, we can come to an understanding of why these things keep happening. We are all in this together, and his loss is all of our losses. We need to come together and find a way to make this stop.

I almost fell off the chair when I read this! LOL! If you had a history of posting about concern for blacks, reaching out to help and understand, I would not blink an eye at that ...errr..... statement. But instead your history is of guns, guns, gun rights, gun owners rights, 2A, 2A, 2A, ammo, guns and guns.

You can admit or deny but it is obvious to everyone the only reason you have any interest in this subject, or are presenting these arguments at all, is because you see incidents like the one in the OP as a threat to your gun rights. You feel need to divert the argument, blame the race, troll, act indignant, etc., all in an effort to protect and defend your precious fire arms. No one is fooled by your "Philanthropy".

[recycled sixtie]

Originally Posted by black73

I almost fell off the chair when I read this! LOL! If you had a history of posting about concern for blacks, reaching out to help and understand, I would not blink an eye at that ...errr..... statement. But instead your history is of guns, guns, gun rights, gun owners rights, 2A, 2A, 2A, ammo, guns and guns.

You can admit or deny but it is obvious to everyone the only reason you have any interest in this subject, or are presenting these arguments at all, is because you see incidents like the one in the OP as a threat to your gun rights. You feel need to divert the argument, blame the race, troll, act indignant, etc., all in an effort to protect and defend your precious fire arms. No one is fooled by your "Philanthropy".

I was going to start a new post about why Americans are the most incarcerated people on this planet. Then I read your post Black 73 as one of being an understanding and rational person. Too bad more folks are not more like you. Well said.

Cheers Guy.

[rfuerst911sc]

Black73 I am curious if you believe there are responsible gun owners in the US ? I ask because I consider myself a responsible gun owners . What does that mean ? To me I have pistols/rifles/shotguns that I enjoy for sport and as self defense if ever needed . My guns are locked in three safes to keep my family safe. I have never wanted to shoot a neighbor/coworker etc for any reason .

The point I am making is attacking responsible gun owners like myself solves nothing . Painting with a broad brush like all blacks are criminals and all white people are rascist not only isn't true but solves nothing . Again to solve a problem you have to understand what the problem is . That determination has to be based on facts/statistics without emotions . Then a solution or solutions can be formulated/discussed/implemented . Just my opinion . We can ALL do better as a society/nation .

[KFC911]

I'm still curious ... "what" triggered the MC rider's response? Was it an innocent "lane change" by a crappy driver, or was it an "intentional" attempt to stop the rider? If the latter, many, many riders carry (illegally), and if intentional, the "biker types" that Higgins used to associate with would have reacted in a similar fashion. I've had three instances in my life where "redneck" or "biker types" pulled a weapon on me that would have merited a lethal response... but I'm still here .

How anyone thinks this was a "happy ending" .... well, that's still very weird to me.... I doubt they've ever killed anyone. Whether just a schitty driver, or knowing "he" intentionally cut off the MC... only he knows. I guarantee this .... his life has changed forever.... and not in a good way imo.

The black community has issues, the gun community has issues.....

I have issues ...

Carry on....

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Purrybonker

Or do you just stand by your "kill or be killed" philosophy regardless of the permanent, unrelenting mayhem such philosophy endlessly results in, year after year?

Your question is loaded with a no win phrase. "Kill or be killed" lends one to think that people are just itching to legally go shoot someone. I am not a violent maniac.
That said, I will say that YES! I have a right to defend myself and not be a victim of an assailant intent on causing serious injury or death. If you would rather let them shoot you and have the police come and draw a chalk line around your corpse then that is your right. I hope you don't feel that way and also hope you are not a victim of your decision to not protect yourself. In truth, you are your only first responder.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by black73

Oh yes, angry. Very, very angry. I forgot to include that one in my list of your cute buzz word false accusations. Don't ever forget angry. Use that any time someone calls you out. You will win every argument whether or not the person shows any anger or not.... or maybe not. Maybe you will be seen for what you are.

Meanwhile, another 8 year old child was killed by a gun yesterday in Nashville. I think it he was white, but i don't see how that is possible given that guns are only dangerous when in the hands of blacks because, you know, they are irresponsible bloodthirsty killers that hate their children and need Righteous Concerned Citizen HIggins to instigate conversation that will rescue their race. At least that what I'm reading here.

Who do you love more? black kids or your gun?

Originally Posted by black73

I almost fell off the chair when I read this! LOL! If you had a history of posting about concern for blacks, reaching out to help and understand, I would not blink an eye at that ...errr..... statement. But instead your history is of guns, guns, gun rights, gun owners rights, 2A, 2A, 2A, ammo, guns and guns.

You can admit or deny but it is obvious to everyone the only reason you have any interest in this subject, or are presenting these arguments at all, is because you see incidents like the one in the OP as a threat to your gun rights. You feel need to divert the argument, blame the race, troll, act indignant, etc., all in an effort to protect and defend your precious fire arms. No one is fooled by your "Philanthropy".

I truly feel sorry for you. You don't know me from Adam, yet you have convinced yourself you have me figured out. And so much anger, resentment, hatred, judgement... wow... I hope that some day you can find your peace. This is no way to go through life.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Black73 I am curious if you believe there are responsible gun owners in the US ? I ask because I consider myself a responsible gun owners . What does that mean ? To me I have pistols/rifles/shotguns that I enjoy for sport and as self defense if ever needed . My guns are locked in three safes to keep my family safe. I have never wanted to shoot a neighbor/coworker etc for any reason .

The point I am making is attacking responsible gun owners like myself solves nothing . Painting with a broad brush like all blacks are criminals and all white people are rascist not only isn't true but solves nothing . Again to solve a problem you have to understand what the problem is . That determination has to be based on facts/statistics without emotions . Then a solution or solutions can be formulated/discussed/implemented . Just my opinion . We can ALL do better as a society/nation .

I could not agree more. These are precisely the points I've been trying to make all along. Unfortunately, the absolute lack of objective reason displayed by thioe Black73 guy can still be found in far too many people. Broaching these topics in a calm, reasonable, logical, dispassionate manner as you have done here will only serve to set these guys off, as Black73 has so convincingly demonstrated. He (and many like him) does not appear to possess the tools necessary to contribute to this discussion in any kind of a meaningful, thoughtful way, so he simply lashes out with angry, baseless accusations. It's a defensive mechanism for guys like him - the "best defense is a good offense", right? So, yeah, he represents why I don't think we can ever have a national conversation on these matters. And that's a shame...

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I truly feel sorry for you. You don't know me from Adam, yet you have convinced yourself you have me figured out. And so much anger, resentment, hatred, judgement... wow... I hope that some day you can find your peace. This is no way to go through life.

When people get wrapped up in their delusions and suppositions there isn't much you can do but let them be. You need to remember not to let yourself get sucked into useless rantings. As the expression goes "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty and the pig loves it"

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

I am curious if you believe there are responsible gun owners in the US ?

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Your question is loaded with a no win phrase. "Kill or be killed" lends one to think that people are just itching to legally go shoot someone. I am not a violent maniac.
That said, I will say that YES! I have a right to defend myself and not be a victim of an assailant intent on causing serious injury or death. If you would rather let them shoot you and have the police come and draw a chalk line around your corpse then that is your right. I hope you don't feel that way and also hope you are not a victim of your decision to not protect yourself. In truth, you are your only first responder.

I'm sure the Lt. Col. is extremely responsible with his firearms. The same cannot be said for a wide swath of this country.

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

When people get wrapped up in their delusions and suppositions there isn't much you can do but let them be. You need to remember not to let yourself get sucked into useless rantings. As the expression goes "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty and the pig loves it"

The discussion is happening. That doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with all of your questioning. I say questioning because that's all it is. Difficult questions that none of us are qualified to answer.

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[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

When people get wrapped up in their delusions and suppositions there isn't much you can do but let them be. You need to remember not to let yourself get sucked into useless rantings. As the expression goes "Never wrestle with a pig. You'll both get dirty and the pig loves it"

Agreed. I have to say, I have very much enjoyed this discussion. A few of us have agreed to disagree along the way, such as myself, upsscott, and pmax. But, you know, I respect them and the manner in which they presented their respective ideas and arguments. This is pretty sensitive subject matter but, for the most part, we have all remained civil and have stayed on point. Very enjoyable.

Against that background, one participant stands apart from the rest. This Black73 guy has yet to address the actual subject matter. He has chosen instead to attack the guy he disagrees with - me. He appears unable to articulate his disagreement, or to form any sort of a reasoned counter argument, so he chooses to try to make it personal instead - with a guy he has never met, assigning all manner of undesirable personality traits, unsavory thoughts, and ulterior motives. All products of his imagination, of course, and all meant to cast me in the worst possible light.

I wouldn't blame you guys if you started to suspect that "Black73" was merely an alter ego I have created in an effort to "sock puppet" myself to help me raise additional points. He's just too convenient, too "on point", to predictable. A way too useful example of the "other side". Lacking the intellectual tools to engage in the topics at hand, all he sees is that we are discussing problems in the black community, so we must be "racists" with our own selfish motives for doing so. There can be no other explanation...

Alas, no, it's not me. I'm not that conniving, nor do I have the energy for that. Unfortunately, he appears to be quite real. Worse than that, he is representative of an intellectual underclass who are incapable of understanding these discussions, and who see a "racist" behind every tree. They are out there, they are who we are up against. And, as I've already pointed out, their presence leaves me with little hope of ever having a national discussion on these matters. The shrill fools, like Black73, will simply drown us out with their accusations of racist driven ulterior motives. What a shame that is...

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by upsscott

The discussion is happening. That doesn't mean that everyone has to agree with all of your questioning. I say questioning because that's all it is. Difficult questions that none of us are qualified to answer.

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Again, we agree. Lots of questions. None of us have the "answers". But at least we're talking. It has to start somewhere...

And with that, I feel as though we have pretty much been around the block on this one. We have left one another with a lot to think about. I think I'm signing off now. Thank you for a wonderful, enlightening discussion.

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Again, we agree. Lots of questions. None of us have the "answers". But at least we're talking. It has to start somewhere...

And with that, I feel as though we have pretty much been around the block on this one. We have left one another with a lot to think about. I think I'm signing off now. Thank you for a wonderful, enlightening discussion.

Thank you.

[speeder]

Here is the latest example of a black person who cannot control themself engaging in deadly violence in the city I'm in right now...no wait...it's a couple of crackers in the whitest place on earth, the western suburbs of Minneapolis. The land of snowmobiles, bass boats, lifted 4x4 PU trucks and suburban tract housing. The subject is road rage and out of control gun violence in the USA, not black people problems. That dog won't hunt, as much as some of you would like to create a diversion.

Road rage shootings seem to be happening somewhere in the USA everyday right now. Everyday. Last month, it was a 3 year old killed in Orange County in his child seat, not a black person in sight. The fact that some of you and me are responsible gun owners is irrelevant. We have an epidemic of gun violence in this country.

https://minnesota.cbslocal.com/video/5761184-man-killed-in-apparent-plymouth-road-rage-incident-identified-as-jay-boughton/

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by Baz

I think all of that doesn't matter when you have two good parents bringing you up.

That's where the focus should be.

+ a million, million.

[black73]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I truly feel sorry for you. You don't know me from Adam, yet you have convinced yourself you have me figured out. And so much anger, resentment, hatred, judgement... wow... I hope that some day you can find your peace. This is no way to go through life.

Dude, you got 18670 posts. You are no mystery. LOLs! And more accusations! Because you know ME so well!

Just think where we would be if Higgins had spent as much time, effort and money fixing "the problem" as he has spent on fire arms. I don't understand why he has not since...ya know.. he cares so much.

[speeder]

The "two good parents" discussion is irrelevant, unless you have some idea of how to enforce some minimum parenting standard or other social norms. The rest of us live in the real world, as it actually is.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Against that background, one participant stands apart from the rest. This Black73 guy has yet to address the actual subject matter. He has chosen instead to attack the guy he disagrees with - me. He appears unable to articulate his disagreement, or to form any sort of a reasoned counter argument, so he chooses to try to make it personal instead - with a guy he has never met, assigning all manner of undesirable personality traits, unsavory thoughts, and ulterior motives. All products of his imagination, of course, and all meant to cast me in the worst possible light.

This is indeed a sensitive subject matter as you put it. You and black73 both landed some punches. However, I see black73 as someone equally passionate about this and I read into his, no gender implied!, posts at the core a plea to be "reaching out to help and understand" which I say includes reading and listening to stuff which is painful to hear when the source is someone with quite a different viewpoint or speaks in an "offensive" way to some.

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

I don't have an hour and a half to listen to that idiot, but man, was that ever painful for the ten minutes I tried. That, and the comments. Most of it unintelligible, displaying a profound absence of any sort of logical thought process. And talk about butchering the English language - most of it at a third or fourth grade level at best. Hell, if I want that kind of nonsense, I'll just read our own beloved cockerpunk, but not for an hour and a half.

So ... how about 30 min at 1.5x speed ? Still too much ? You can skip the part following the commercial in the middle.

I believe, and it's nothing more than that ... a belief, the speaker got it wrong mostly but it was eye opening to me if that makes any sense and I can totally see conversations like that happening in other communities and dinner tables with everyone in general agreement.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Purrybonker

Yes but? Why does the "assailant" have a gun? I call this a win against the Second Amendment (which we all know has absolutely zero reference to this type of scenario - I refer you, sir, to the actual wording of the Second Amendment and I'm a Canadian so feel somewhat inadequate in purporting to edify you on your own laws)

In Canada (the second most individually weaponized nation, after USA, on the planet), we have about 10% of the annual gun deaths of the USA - do you get a clue at all? Or do you just stand by your "kill or be killed" philosophy regardless of the permanent, unrelenting mayhem such philosophy endlessly results in, year after year?

There is literally nothing accurate in the above post at all.

Originally Posted by recycled sixtie

I was going to start a new post about why Americans are the most incarcerated people on this planet. Then I read your post Black 73 as one of being an understanding and rational person. Too bad more folks are not more like you. Well said.

Cheers Guy.

Seriously? It is even more full of crap than his typical post, which is really saying something.

go read this thread Florida woman misses flight Pretty much same subject matter, without the guns, so maybe a rational discussion could be had.