Decorum and being a gentleman

[upsscott]

Originally Posted by Superman

We do disagree politically, and Javadog's comment was indeed spot-on. And while I don't want to PARF up this thread, I will say that some folks seem to have a blind spot about that. He says:

"For some people it’s all about me, and the hell with you."

Selfishness, right? Just where does "freedom" end and "selfishness" begin? I see folks INSISTING that they are free to dismiss whatever requirements they want to dismiss, even mandates, because.....FREEDOM. Nevermind that people are dying. I am free to drive 100 mph along residential streets with my eyes closed.

Yes, there is a problem with the "It's all about ME, and the hell with YOU" thing.

You make a great point.

[javadog]

Originally Posted by KC911

Ties .

Somebody care to explain them to me....

Type slow

We could explain it but it would be a lost cause. You’re not gonna wear one anyway.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by javadog

We could explain it but it would be a lost cause. You’re not gonna wear one anyway.

I still have ONE .... gave all the rest of 'em away years ago . But you are correct....

Anybody want a free tie....Glen ?

I've been on 5 "music cruises" too.... after paying $7-8K for the pleasure, I'll be damned if I was packing dress up clothes for dining either .... wtf?

Well.... I did take along a few ties... err tyes .

[javadog]

Originally Posted by KC911

I still have ONE .... gave all the rest of 'em away years ago . But you are correct....

Anybody want a free tie....Glen ?

I've been on 5 "music cruises" too.... after paying $7-8K for the pleasure, I'll be damned if I was packing dress up clothes for dining either .... wtf?

Well.... I did take along a few ties... err tyes .

I have in excess of 90 ties.

I haven’t been on a cruise in years but I wore a suit and tie to dinner every night, even black-tie one evening. To this day, if I go to an expensive restaurant, I’m in a suit and tie.

[Tobra]

It seems there are some that are of the opinion this is old fashioned, manners do not matter any more, nobody notices or cares.

People always notice, always. Just because they do not tell you, does not mean they did not notice.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by Mahler9th

"...not the one thing."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfTAOsRki0E

Texan and fellow former All-Ivy athlete.

Great clip...here is the embed....

Few weeks ago at the Walmart deli, overheard a young bloke using "Please, Ma'am, and Thank you" while he was speaking and I complimented him on his manners. His reply "I'm from Texas."

Left a very positive impression on me....well done, sir!

[javadog]

Originally Posted by Tobra

It seems there are some that are of the opinion this is old fashioned, manners do not matter any more, nobody notices or cares.

People always notice, always. Just because they do not tell you, does not mean they did not notice.

And that’s especially true of women. They absolutely, positively, pay attention to the details. Ignore their interests at your peril…

[upsscott]

Yeah women are really turned off by men who wear hats indoors.

[L8Brakr]

I'm sure there are many traditions I don't fully understand, but the whole "hat off to show respect" is close to the top of the list.

Why is removing your hat noble/polite when shaking hands? Whether it's to enter someone's house, or "congratulations on an enjoyable game" while walking off the 18th green.

Here's the scenario +90 % of the time. Hat is removed and held with the left hand as you approach. The person runs their right hand through their sweaty, oily hair (often more than once) to fluff out the "hat hair", and then extends the same hand for the shake. Living in the south most of my life has taught me than almost anyone wearing a hat outside for more than 30 minutes will look much better hat on than hat off....at least until a shower and comb are available. Maybe back when no one bathed more than once a week, the sweaty/oily hair was the expected norm.

I really don't find anything polite about being offered a sweaty/oily hand. Only marginally better than extending a hand after using the bathroom. Just keep the damn hat on. Makes so much more sense to me.

[TimT]

Well there is this...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-rude-wear-hat-indoors-222916590.html

and there is this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/judaism/customs/yarmulke.shtml#:~:text=Most%20Jews%20will%20cover% 20their,respect%20and%20fear%20of%20God.

Apparently we love to disagree

[Superman]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

yeah, lotta old men who think compliance to some arbitrary code of conduct means something.

Oftentimes you make a great deal of sense to me. This is not one of those times. Yes you are correct, this is not about Jesus' judgment but rather, it is about man's. Jesus doesn't give a rip what we wear.

Tell you what....I invite you to illustrate your disdain for manners in this way: Next time you have to appear in court and the judge walks in, when the Bailiff says "All rise," you sit with your arms crossed and sneer at the judge.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by javadog

I have in excess of 90 ties.

I haven’t been on a cruise in years but I wore a suit and tie to dinner every night, even black-tie one evening. To this day, if I go to an expensive restaurant, I’m in a suit and tie.

How many are Jerry Garcia ties ?

You couldn't pay me to go on a "regular cruise" like those.... different strokes.

Those "Blues" and "Jam Band" cruises were a hoot tho'.... 5 total.

Number of suits seen.... ZERO.

Birthday suits don't count

[javadog]

Originally Posted by KC911

How many are Jerry Garcia ties ?

You couldn't pay me to go on a "regular cruise" like those.... different strokes.

Those "Blues" and "Jam Band" cruises were a hoot tho'.... 5 total.

Number of suits seen.... ZERO.

Birthday suits don't count

When it comes to ties, I prefer Hermès over Jerry Garcia.

I think we might have different expectations for a cruise…

[Por_sha911]

Originally Posted by drcoastline

Why does it matter what the origin is?

Because your "rules" aren't everyone elses rules. In orthodox Jewish homes a woman never covers her head and a man always covers his head. In muslim countries we are considered uncivilized heathen because a woman actually shows her face in public. In the turn of the 20th century a woman showing a knee at the beach was considered a brazen loose woman. So, who gets to make the rules? Who gets to decide they can be changed?

[Superman]

Originally Posted by javadog

When it comes to ties, I prefer Hermès over Jerry Garcia.
…

For me, it depends on the occasion. I have fully dignified ties, and some which are more colorful. When the occasion allows, I enjoy wearing the latter. I like dark suits, black shoes, white shirts, and a splash of color in the center.

And I am still stunned by those who report their belief that manners are stupid. I wonder if they say "please." Do they flick their boogers on the floors of restaurants? Do they let the door slam shut into the face of the woman behind them?

The women in my life don't touch door handles when they are with me. You know what? If a man goes through life dressed nicely, shows manners, uses terms like Sir and Ma'am (ladies actually like "Miss" better), says please and thank you, offers compliments, etc., he's going to be far more respected than the idiots who wear sweat pants and spit on sidewalks. Want people to think you are someone to respect? ACT LIKE IT!

[Por_sha911]

I fully agree that good manners and respectful behavior is always in style. I am just challenging what is pointing out that what is 'correct' has changed. In my dad's generation a gentleman never went out without a fedora on. In my late teens, only bikers or 'those other people' wore an earring. Want to talk about manners?
Shut the darn phone off when in a restaurant or at the dinner table.
Don't brag about what you own or where you've been.
Don't be rude and alienate visitors in church because you don't like the way they dress. Treat them with disdain and they may not come back to any church if they think all Christians are more interested in what they wear than who they are.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

Because your "rules" aren't everyone elses rules. In orthodox Jewish homes a woman never covers her head and a man always covers his head. In muslim countries we are considered uncivilized heathen because a woman actually shows her face in public. In the turn of the 20th century a woman showing a knee at the beach was considered a brazen loose woman. So, who gets to make the rules? Who gets to decide they can be changed?

Who makes the rules? Whose ever "house" you are in makes the rules. When in Rome.

To use your analogy when the US military goes to a Muslim country do we say screw your customs (rules) or do our women follow their "rules"?

Or Japan where they require you remove your shoes.

If you don't want to follow the Customs, traditions, "rules" that are considered proper etiquette then you don't go. You don't get to ask tell me why, who made the rule and then I will tell you if I am going to follow it and if you don't like it too bad.

[drcoastline]

Originally Posted by Por_sha911

I fully agree that good manners and respectful behavior is always in style. I am just challenging what is pointing out that what is 'correct' has changed. In my dad's generation a gentleman never went out without a fedora on. In my late teens, only bikers or 'those other people' wore an earring. Want to talk about manners?
Shut the darn phone off when in a restaurant or at the dinner table.
Don't brag about what you own or where you've been.
Don't be rude and alienate visitors in church because you don't like the way they dress. Treat them with disdain and they may not come back to any church if they think all Christians are more interested in what they wear than who they are.

If you truly believe that than removing your hat is good manners and respectful. So you remove your hat. He can be excused for not removing his hat initially, but, he was asked to remove his hat by an official, so you remove your hat. That's is it the conversation is over. No one need explain to you why it is proper, the tradition or anything else. You be respectful and remove your hat or you leave.

So what comes next? This person is going to decide whether he needs to go to confession before receiving communion?

[KFC911]

I was taught manners...but hats are not part of those lessons. Please, Thank You, Holding doors open, etc. I do all of those without fail. I would never enter a church wearing a cap, but virtually everywhere else, the cap stays on... that's when I don't care. If I happen to enter a Walmart or a Target with a cap on, who am I disrespecting... Sam Walton, other shoppers, the current CEO?

Like neckties ... just arbitrary "rules" that I will politely ignore, and if someone got offended and asked me to remove it....

No Thank You

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by javadog

When it comes to ties, I prefer Hermès over Jerry Garcia.

I think we might have different expectations for a cruise…

Absolutely we do! If it wasn't for those first rate musical experiences at sea... I would never be found on one to begin with .