Does ethanol in gas really reduce emissions?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I think he moved out of California and is swimming in a vault of gold, like Scrooge McDuck.

LOL .... I hope so

[cabmandone]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I think he moved out of California and is swimming in a vault of gold, like Scrooge McDuck.

He did a reverse Beverly Hillbillies?

[cabmandone]

FWIW, I reached out to a few experts and my suspicion of what I'm seeing on the AFR gauge being caused by ethanol vs non ethanol fuel was confirmed.

I could write it off as impossible to nail down due to other external factors but when I stopped the car to fill up yesterday (car was fully warmed up) I always look at my AFR gauge before shutting the car off. I was in the 13.6-13.8 range. After fill up, I drove about 15 miles to a store. When I turned the car off, I was in the 14-14.2 range. I would be willing to bet that today after the car is warmed up it will remain in the 14-14.2 (where I originally set the base idle mixture) range and continue to do so until the next time I fill up with non ethanol fuel.

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Tobra

Again, nothing in this is correct, that is not why ethanol was added to fuel, no matter how many times you say so.

You're wrong. Again.

[gduke2010]

A fe years ago, I'd fill up my car for the last drive of the year with ethanol free 91. The past few years used non ethanol 91 exclusively. Theres a noticeable difference. The car runs smoother and has noticeably, more power.

[devodave]

Not sure about emissions, but the ethanol-free 90 octane sure helps with gas mileage. Been using it since last year in my 16 Sierra P/U. Mileage went from 17.2 mpg to 22.2 mpg. That's a 29% improvement. It was $0.70 more a gallon, so when gas was $2.59/gal, it was a wash. When fuel hit, $4.59/gal, only paying 15% more. But the station must have wised up....last week, the ethanol free fuel was $1.00 more per gallon, so $5.69 vs. $4.69. Still only 21% more for that mileage improvement. Figure its not harming anything either. Of course, ambient air temperature and tires (type and pressure) still have an impact.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by red-beard

An Air fuel ratio valve is used to adjust the ratio of fuel to air based on the change in the heating value of the fuel. Use a lower BTU content fuel and you want more fuel to air. All of our engines running on Landfill Gas use air fuel ratio valves because the BTU content of the landfill gas is not consistent.

Man, this thread is back from the dead. I forget now what we were talking about. Oxygenated fuels? Fuel injection? As far as Bosch automotive AFR is concerned, the mixture ratio is controlled by the fuel injector pulse timing. That's why baseline is set slightly rich. It's easier to lean it out by shortening the pulse, than it is to lengthen the fuel injector pulse timing. The CPU uses pulsed ground to activate the injectors. Power supply is constant.

[gduke2010]

Originally Posted by devodave

Not sure about emissions, but the ethanol-free 90 octane sure helps with gas mileage. Been using it since last year in my 16 Sierra P/U. Mileage went from 17.2 mpg to 22.2 mpg. That's a 29% improvement. It was $0.70 more a gallon, so when gas was $2.59/gal, it was a wash. When fuel hit, $4.59/gal, only paying 15% more. But the station must have wised up....last week, the ethanol free fuel was $1.00 more per gallon, so $5.69 vs. $4.69. Still only 21% more for that mileage improvement. Figure its not harming anything either. Of course, ambient air temperature and tires (type and pressure) still have an impact.

I towed a car across Nebraska and Wyoming. Nebraska flat with 10% ethanol while Wyoming Mountainous with no ethanol and got 4mpg bettering Wyoming.

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by gduke2010

I towed a car across Nebraska and Wyoming. Nebraska flat with 10% ethanol while Wyoming Mountainous with no ethanol and got 4mpg bettering Wyoming.

I've driven through Nebraska with a tired engine. The 85 with the ethanol is a killer....

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by Superman

I've never heard of ethanol as a strategy for reducing emissions. Ethanol is added to gas because it is a less expensive way to bump octane up.

Originally Posted by Tobra

nothing in this post is correct

Originally Posted by Superman

You're wrong. Again.

Corn lobby sold us this bill of goods.

Money has everything to do with why we use corn for fuel, totally driven by money.

It just has nothing to do with why you feel like we use corn for fuel.

[JackDidley]

Originally Posted by gduke2010

I towed a car across Nebraska and Wyoming. Nebraska flat with 10% ethanol while Wyoming Mountainous with no ethanol and got 4mpg bettering Wyoming.

Seems excessive. E10 should only use 5% more than ethanol free.

[Jolly Amaranto]

Wyoming is higher up than Nebraska. My old Volvo 240 wagon always got better gas mileage at higher altitude. A canoe strapped to the top worked as well. Must have broke up the turbulence and drag caused by the blunt tail gate.

[GH85Carrera]

My understanding is that Ethanol was first proposed to replace MTBE. Of course the corn lobby was like the CBD lobby, it is a cure all for all problems, and safe and wonderful.

One thing that is usually skipped over, the tons of carbon released by the farmers tractors planting, and fertilizing to produce the corn. Then the harvest, and the massive distillation process to make corn into ethanol. If that is added back in to the equation, then gasohol is a net loss. Only with massive tax subsidies is it profitable to make ethanol for fuel.

We would actually consume less petroleum if we eliminated the corn for fuel programs. Grow it for food, and work on feeding the hungry if that is what we want to subsidize the American Farmers with.

[island911]

Originally Posted by pwd72s

Interesting video...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-yDKeya4SU&ab_channel=EngineeringExplained

Thanks for this vid/post. It had me LOL at the 1min mark with the corn kernels being stirred with a celery stick. That engineer is smart, informative and entertaining.

Personally I think that this corn to ethanol thing was a geopolitical tool to say "look at us, we are so food rich we turn our excess into fuel for our peeps to drive to the Super Markets to buy the really good food. "

[Racerbvd]

Originally Posted by devodave

Not sure about emissions, but the ethanol-free 90 octane sure helps with gas mileage. Been using it since last year in my 16 Sierra P/U. Mileage went from 17.2 mpg to 22.2 mpg. That's a 29% improvement. It was $0.70 more a gallon, so when gas was $2.59/gal, it was a wash. When fuel hit, $4.59/gal, only paying 15% more. But the station must have wised up....last week, the ethanol free fuel was $1.00 more per gallon, so $5.69 vs. $4.69. Still only 21% more for that mileage improvement. Figure its not harming anything either. Of course, ambient air temperature and tires (type and pressure) still have an impact.

Thanks, I'll try it in the next tank I run through the Tundra and report back.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Ethanol use in Gasoline is the merging of the AG industry and the Petroleum industry to create the gold standard in corporate welfare and is really in essence corporate & middle class socialism.

The NASA & JPL programs are the same with supposed long term payback.

DOE is still chasing the holy grail of Energy too.

The F-35 is built in 40 states for a reason

All of the above are a form of middle class socialism blessed by corporate America

[island911]

Originally Posted by devodave
Not sure about emissions, but the ethanol-free 90 octane sure helps with gas mileage. Been using it since last year in my 16 Sierra P/U. Mileage went from 17.2 mpg to 22.2 mpg. That's a 29% improvement.

That is a much bigger improvement than what I've seen. Ethanol fuels can support up to equal amounts of water in solution. I've always wondered how much moisture the fuel is allowed to absorb. Anyway, I thought that I might be getting close to 20% better, but it's so hard to tell when so many other variables are present (speed, stop-goes, temperatures...)

IIRC, ~10% better mileage is the most aggressive thermo calculation. (assumes water in the ethanol mix)

Originally Posted by KC911

Samny went AWOL along with a whole bunch of long timers in the past year or so ... hope he and the rest of them are doing OK and just avoiding PPOT.

Originally Posted by red-beard

I think he moved out of California and is swimming in a vault of gold, like Scrooge McDuck.

I do hope so.

[manbridge 74]

Ethanol is used to increase octane in todays garbage fuel which is full of low octane BTEX components. Straight gas has to reach octane goals using better ingredients. It burns a heck of a lot better…

[Tobra]

Should be using switchgrass instead of corn, if we were going to do anything, but there is no switchgrass lobby.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by Superman

I've never heard of ethanol as a strategy for reducing emissions. Ethanol is added to gas because it is a less expensive way to bump octane up.

this.

Originally Posted by URY914

It all has to do with Iowa farmers and the fact their caucus is first during POTUS elections. Complete BS.

and also this.


ethanol is the poster child for why listening to lobbyists is a bad idea.


e85 does make for a fantastic race fuel though.