The irony here is off the chart

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by aigel

....There is no serious effort to create public transportation that is viable...

We actually had that.

Taken For a Ride

TLDR, the documentary lays out how GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil conspired to dismantle Americas mass transit systems because it meant selling more cars, petroleum, and tires.

And yes, they got a slap on the wrist for it.

[island911]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

...

This the ****ing United States.

When we decided to do something we just went and did it.

Only took us 66 years to go from Kitty Hawk to the moon and that's because one dude said "we're gonna be the 1st to do it" so we just went and did it.

That's the unicorn spirit!

No, seriously, we when from Kitty Hawk to the moon because we had people looking to innovate where they could innovate.

When it comes to battery tech there is no shortage of people looking to innovate. -so many battery products- Anyway, Porsche's first car produced was electric. That was a bit before Kitty Hawk iirc. And so that begs the question of just how much has battery tech evolved since then. Obviously batteries were integral parts of submarines and spaceships, so just how much has battery tech improved in that same time span? I'm thinking energy density is a good metric to measure and compare.

[GH85Carrera]

Electric cars are perfect in an urban environment for commuting every day to work, returning home to your garage, and charging up at night.

They must suck if you live in an apartment or a rent house with no place to charge safely at night.

On my many cross country road trips I have stopped at gigantic rest stop-truck stops - convenience store-restaurant. Some have 60 or more gas pumps, and untold dozens of places for the semis to fuel up. Just think of the energy amounts flowing into tanks at an amazing pace. It will take twice as many spaces to let electric cars start charging, and a nearby power plant to replicate that for the all electric future. It will be an interesting problem to solve.

[CurtEgerer]

[stevej37]

I'd like to see a test of one done in MI on a windy Jan. day where the temp struggles to get over 0 F.

[techweenie]

Ha. The $1.4 Billion invested yearly in disinfo by the oil & gas industry has clearly fooled a few people.

[island911]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Ha. The $1.4 Billion invested yearly in disinfo by the oil & gas industry has clearly fooled a few people.

When I was working on my engineering degree (circa 1990) I was chasing ultimate efficiencies and got into a hybrid electric vehicle project as well as an HPV project, but here's the thing -Physics-

It's not disinfo by the oil & gas industry that has clearly fooled... Nope. information on the physics of it all. And until battery energy density and costs change dramatically for the better, the best we can do is leverage the regen of hybrid systems.

Improvements to internal combustion engines have been crazy good, btw. In cylinder injection and thermal efficiencies well over 50% are impressive and relatively cheap. Whereas big-battery EV's are expensive toys that certainly have great utility as cars. IOW, we wouldn't say that GT3-RS's are the solution to future economies, right? I mean you can get one, even with ceramic brakes and all. They can drive you quickly from point A to B and are fun as hell. Therefore GT3-RS's are the future - the only future. and anyone who says differently is just a fool of evil Musk propaganda.

[rusnak]

First of all, this wet dream of Gavin Newsom and the Left will never happen.

It'll be challenged in court and the courts will decide that it's either a legislative over reach, or that it needs to be returned to the voters to decide if they want to change their entire society. There is nowhere even close to enough electricity to convert to millions of electric cars in ten years. Furthermore, what electricity there is will become so expensive and will be rationed so that no one will be able to afford it, and industry and commerce will cease to exist if the laws are not repealed.

It's not a guideline, a suggestion, or the like. It's a stupid legislative stunt to gain attention and to advance a cause. It's like the Liberals took their dad's Ferrari for a joyride mudbogging off road again.

[Cloggie]

I am not going to get into an extensive debate on this well worn topic, but I will say that an EV is a complete non-starter for me, given my normal driving profile and an absolute dislike of anything that delays my journey.

My examples.

1. drive from home to visit 95 yo mother, temperature -20c, distance round trip ~575 km, there is typically snow on the ground so you need full defrosters/cabin heat on full time. Exactly one Tesla charging station on the route and that one not in a convenient location. I checked with some EV owners....not one of their cars could do that trip on a single charge and there were even concerns about charging rates at low temperatures such as that.

2. Drive from home to a meeting, round trip distance 750 km, some charging stations midway, but believe me, for a 8 am start, the last thing I want to do is add a 45 minute charging wait on the way up and after an exhausting day, I have no patience for a delay in getting home to charge my car. No plausible changing stations near the meeting place - I would either have to walk ~30 minutes from the nearest charging station, get an Uber/taxi or public transit - none of which are convenient, workable or acceptable.

So, EVs do not work for me at all, I do not see the point for them as CO2 is not a pollutant and is not a threat to our societies in any way while the foolish drive towards BEV's in particular is just squandering resources better spent on almost any other problem we face in the world, whether it be plastics in the ocean or cancer.

As for Calif. Their grid has always been very weak due to the NIMBY effect being unbelievably strong, Enron gamed them quite easily (I was working in a grid operator as an executive during that timeframe) and they continue to make foolish decisions. BEV's will just be the log that breaks the electrical camel's back as it were...

D..

[RobFrost]

Originally Posted by rusnak

Never mind the distribution grid. Where is all of the electricity going to come from 24/7?

We currently consume fossil fuels at hundreds of times the speed they are created. Do you see how the question "where is the energy going to come from?" predates the move to electric cars?

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

[RobFrost]

Originally Posted by Baz

What happens if you are on the road and your car's battery runs out of juice?

Call a service to come give you a charge - or tow to a charging station?

Can you carry an emergency source of energy?

Do these cars have a reserve?

Thanks!

It makes sense that in the future a third party company will own the batteries and you will go to a petrol station to exchange a flat one for charged.

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by RobFrost

We currently consume fossil fuels at hundreds of times the speed they are created. Do you see how the question "where is the energy going to come from?" predates the move to electric cars?

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

But we several hundreds of years of petroleum in reserve just in the USA.

[rusnak]

Originally Posted by RobFrost

We currently consume fossil fuels at hundreds of times the speed they are created. Do you see how the question "where is the energy going to come from?" predates the move to electric cars?

Sent from my SM-G988B using Tapatalk

You do realize that the entire state of California already has a power shortage, don't you? And that we're talking about power rationing, fines for going over your electricity quota, and most likely the end of things like fresh lettuce and milk. There will not be enough electricity to power your home AC and the local grocery store. Forget about going to the corner market for a bag of ice or cold beer too. Not enough electricity.

As I say, all of this is typical pie in the sky Lib talk. They imagine that unicorn farts are a "thing" and that they are saving the world. The. Entire. World.

[billybek]

Originally Posted by CurtEgerer

Where is the outrage?

I remember the negative sell on Alberta's "dirty" oil and the tailings ponds.
I guess outrage on "green" technology just isn't socially acceptable just yet.

Electric only isn't a viable option for cold climate regions. Yet.

Putting all your eggs in one energy basket seems like a colossal mistake.

[dad911]

Didn't CA also ban natural gas in new construction, or is that just some areas? Certainly that will cause additional drain on the grid.

[dad911]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

.....
Only took us 66 years to go from Kitty Hawk to the moon and that's because one dude said "we're gonna be the 1st to do it" so we just went and did it.

Yet 50 years later we seem to have forgotten how to get back to the moon

[Por_sha911]

We haven't forgotten. We just can't find a decent plumber to fix some leaks.

[Por_sha911]

It keeps getting more ironic!

California's electric grid operator called for residents to make larger reductions in electricity usage this week, warning of worsening grid conditions amid a record heat wave.

The California Independent System Operator (CAISO) warned Sunday that it is "stepping up its call for consumers to lower electricity use" as a result of historic heat that will put severe pressure on the grid, according to a notice. CAISO requested that residents set their thermostats to a minimum of 78 degrees, turn of all "unnecessary lights" and avoid using large appliances or charging their electric vehicles (EVs) between 4-9 p.m. throughout the duration of the alert.

"When it comes to good energy policy, California’s leaders are unplugged from reality," Daniel Turner, the founder and executive director of energy group Power The Future, said in a statement last week.

"Temperatures are soaring, and residents are being asked to power down their everyday appliances and air conditioners over a long holiday weekend," he continued. "Welcome to the green utopia that Joe Biden, Gavin Newsom and the rest of the eco-left want for the rest of the country. It would be comical if the consequences were not so harmful."

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/california-urges-residents-not-charge-evs-busy-travel-weekend

78 degrees indoors, don't run any appliances (like cooking dinner after work or washing clothes), don't charge up your EV if you need to go out to the store: this is Biden and Newsom's green utopia!

[A930Rocket]

Miners push dead EV to plant to charge battery… 😳

https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/west-virginia-coal-miners-help-tourists-push-dead-electric-car

[manbridge 74]

I’d like to see them push a Taycan. You’d have to use go-jacks since they don’t roll when they are dead depleted.