do you need winter tires and/or AWD if you drive in snow?

[masraum]

For the folks that didn't/aren't watching the video.

[rfuerst911sc]

Born and raised in upstate NY before getting smart and moving south . Drove many RWD cars/trucks in the snow and ice . Throw on some winter tires and four 80 lb bags of sand in the trunk or bed . With common sense and momentum you can do a lot .

[masraum]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Born and raised in upstate NY before getting smart and moving south . Drove many RWD cars/trucks in the snow and ice . Throw on some winter tires and four 80 lb bags of sand in the trunk or bed . With common sense and momentum you can do a lot .

When I was 16, I had a '65 Impala, 2dr, V8, 4spd, manual brakes and steering. It had cheap tires on it 225 70 14 in the back and 205 75 14 in the front. My dad drove that the 25-30 miles from Woodbridge, VA to DC and back in 6" inches of snow. Actually, when he got home, driving down the unpaved road to our home off of the main road, it looked like a snow plow with 18" of snow piled up against the front bumper. I eventually drove the same car in snow. I also drove a '76 Chevy Chevette (52hp, 4spd, crappy A/S tires) in snow. 3 years ago, I drove my Boxster S with extreme perf summer tires 80+ miles with snow/ice on the roads and temps in the teens. Fortunately, the roads were 97% clear, but that was still a bit of a white knuckler!

Driving in snow/ice isn't hard. It's like driving in the wet except that the limits are an order of magnitude lower.

[Brian 162]

I use all season tires in the winter. Main reason is we travel to Florida in the winter and winter snow tires may wear quicker in the warmer climate.
I'd probably have snow tires if we didn't heat south in the winter.
Every year at the first real snow storm in Toronto all the news outlets set up at the same 2 roadways that cars can't make up the hill. Lot's of cars without snow tires getting stuck.

[ramonesfreak]

This year for the first time, a bought a set of OEM winter wheels and tires and put them on. Still no snow and gonna be 55 tomorrow. El Niño.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Anyone who argues against dedicated winter tires hasn't owned them for a real winter. In direct comparison to anything else, there is none.

I have and I don’t think they are necessary but thanks for your generalization.

Winter tires are becoming obsolete as advances are being made by Nokian, Michelin, and Pirelli with their all weather tires. We drive more in winter conditions than not. We put on 1000 kms every weekend in the winter to and from the ski hill. Currently we are running all weather tires n the SUVs and Michelin all seasons on my trucks.

We’ve been there done that with winter tires from Michelin, Yokohama, and Bridgestone. The modern all weather tires are just as good. On my WRX, I swapped out my Michelin winters for all weather Pilot Sports.

[1990C4S]

I've owned 4WD trucks, fwd cars, and AWD wagons. None were significantly better than the others with snow tires. It is extremely rare, but 4WD low does help when you're really stuck.

[pavulon]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

I have and I don’t think they are necessary but thanks for your generalization.

Objective data doesn't lie. But thanks for sharing your mistaken beliefs.

[OK-944]

While my wife's 2023 Subaru Outback Wilderness (as set up with all terrain tires) churns through pretty much anything here in northern Vermont - I also have the good sense (from half century of northern Vermont winters) to know that with true snow-tires this car would perform even better. In fact, by next winter, after the AT tires have worn down a bit more, we'll likely go ahead and mount snows.

For my 944 there is absolutely no way I'd be driving in winter without switching over to my Blizzaks! These tires have made it feasible and actually quite enjoyable to drive here in winter, and also provide noticeably better dry pavement performance (in temps below 40F) than do my all season ultra high performance Sumitomo HS P03 tires. A bit counterintuitive perhaps, but due to the winter tire's softer rubber compound, which allows it to keep providing better grip (on the dry as well as wet, snowy, and icy) as temps. continue to drop.

Very surprised that no one here has mentioned this (rubber compound) aspect of snow tires - especially seeing as much our winter driving is actually done on dry pavement.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by pavulon

Objective data doesn't lie. But thanks for sharing your mistaken beliefs.

All weather tires have made winter tires obsolete technology.

All season tires are not the same as all weather tires.

Live in the past with your ‘mistaken’ and obsolete views if you choose to or do some research and learn something. Up to you… doesn’t affect me.

https://www.pirelli.com/tires/en-ca/car/catalog/product/scorpion-weatheractive

https://www.michelin.ca/en/auto/tires/michelin-crossclimate2

https://www.nokiantires.com/tires/passenger-car/all-weather-tires/?cid=ads_s&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAyp-sBhBSEiwAWWzTnnoxXYZBeUNiLggUsQlcxyl_jOusDaNFTsUAj RP3Ui5Uwo3zrjNFehoCDssQAvD_BwE

[billybek]

I run designated all weather tires on the 1 ton in the winter. They have the three peaks snowflake symbol on the side (Yoko Geolanders).
During the camping/towing season I flip the Wrangler SRAs back on to keep the Geos in good shape for winter. The Geos were pretty quiet on dry pavement when I first got them, now not so much. Surprisingly noisy on hard packed snow too. Great traction though.
My wife has designated winters on her Honda CR-V. Michelin Ice no studs.
The old VW Golf we owned was a tractor in the winter with the Blizzaks on. It would plow the deep snow down to the the front spoiler/pan level. This was the first car I had ever put designated winters on and it made a huge difference.
All the winter tires are mounted on their own wheels so switching from one to the other is not a big deal.

[billybek]

The 4x4s in the ditch are an indicator of either that they are being driven too fast and are unable to react to changes in road conditions (drifting snow/black ice) and some people are just not very good drivers.
Four wheel and all wheel drive certainly make them accelerate more quickly in slippery conditions but it certainly doesn't help them stop much quicker than anything else on the road.
There are a couple of big hills on the way skiing that you will see pickup trucks and some cars in the ditch near the top of the hill. I suspect it happens because the transmission shifts down and gets the wheels spinning. If approached with a neutral throttle they probably wouldn't be doing a ground loop... (they may even be running cruise control in those conditions)

[jcommin]

I am a believer in winter tires. They make a difference. Limited slip works better when you have tires that grip, otherwise, IMO, not so much. Depending on where you live, all season tires are probably a good compromise. Living in Chicago, all season tires, to me, are good enough. Chicago uses allot of salt on roads and expressways so even with a light snowfall, the streets are white from the salt.

[pavulon]

"There's simply no replacement for a good winter tire"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCiORPE-U0I

[Mike Andrew]

Firm believer in dedicated winter tires. I was skeptical until I put a Jetta with all seasons into a U.P. snowbank at about 20mph and spent an hour digging it out. Had Blizzaks on within a day of getting home. Problem solved. Since then, only AWD vehicles with winter tires for me and the wife.
Skiing the U.P. and CO 30 - 40 days a year, I get to see lots of offs as I cruise along at a safe and reasonable speed for the conditions. Amazing to see cars that I would expect to do well in snow struggling and I attribute it to tires, worn or just wrong tires for winter.

Data only confirms my seat of pants observations on the topic.

[Arizona_928]

I run snow tires in my Mazda 121 DB. They have treated me very well...

[masraum]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

All weather tires have made winter tires obsolete technology.

All season tires are not the same as all weather tires.

Live in the past with your ‘mistaken’ and obsolete views if you choose to or do some research and learn something. Up to you… doesn’t affect me.

https://www.pirelli.com/tires/en-ca/car/catalog/product/scorpion-weatheractive

https://www.michelin.ca/en/auto/tires/michelin-crossclimate2

https://www.nokiantires.com/tires/passenger-car/all-weather-tires/?cid=ads_s&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAiAyp-sBhBSEiwAWWzTnnoxXYZBeUNiLggUsQlcxyl_jOusDaNFTsUAj RP3Ui5Uwo3zrjNFehoCDssQAvD_BwE

While All-weather tires are probably a huge step forward compared to older all season tires, my guess is that winter tires are probably also a step forward from all-weather tires. As has been stated, the difference is probably 1 your environment and 2 the compromise that you're willing to make.

So All weather tires are "good enough". But what if there's an appreciable difference in performance between those and dedicated winter/snow tires. If you had a wife, mother, kids driving in snow, and you could give them a margin of safety over the other 99% of drivers, and what it costs you is a second set of wheels, and swapping wheels/tires twice a year. Maybe some folks find that worth it and others don't.

On my cars, I fit the tires with the best dry grip and wet performance that I can find. I figure that means that I stop faster, have a better chance of avoiding an accident, etc.... But I know that there are folks that run "average" tires on their Porsches because those tires are "good enough" and likely cheaper.

If All weather tires are just as good, then why are tire manufacturers still making dedicated winter/snows?

https://www.canadadrives.ca/blog/maintenance/all-season-vs-all-weather-vs-winter-tires

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a15338788/all-weather-tires-explained-merging-all-seasons-and-winter-tires/

https://www.firestonecompleteautocare.com/blog/tires/all-weather-vs-snow-tires/

https://www.bridgestonetire.com/learn/shop/winter-snow-tires-vs-all-season-tires/

[ramonesfreak]

No all season run flat tires available for the 18” wheels that came with my car. Had to buy another set of wheels with winters. I’ve always used all season since 88. I was looking fwd to seeing if I notice a difference. One thing for sure, handling with the winters when over 50 degrees is horrible...

All seasons definitely better in that regard

[908/930]

One other factor is what type of snow, super cold climate like Alberta or Quebec snow is very different to some parts of southern Ontario or western BC. Wet snow is very different to drive in as it can form ice as you drive over it, and if you stop in the wrong place hard to get rolling again. Years ago I did get my 2500hd 4wd with limited slip rear differential stuck on the road, 8" of snow formed ice troughs under the tires when I stopped.

[jyl]

Agree, what kind of snow matters a lot. Dry cold snow and flattish terrain, good driver can manage on all seasons. Ice and/or hills, you need winter tires. There are tires with the “snowflake+mountain” symbol that you can drive year-round, I have them on one car and they are okay. But feel the tread and you’ll see they are still not as soft as full-on winter tires like Blizzaks. Blizzaks will stop and steer on sheet ice if you’re doing your part including keeping the speed down.