Rust armorer found guilty

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by masraum

I'm not even going to post this one so it shows

https://www.the-sun.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2021/10/NINTCHDBPICT000688667265-1.jpg

Not even with someone else's junk.

[Arizona_928]

Sex sells. She’ll make a killing with an only fans account.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Arizona_928

Sex sells. She’ll make a killing with an only fans account.

She's already "made a killing"

[Arizona_928]

Originally Posted by KC911

She's already "made a killing"

Pun intended

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

What a travesty of "justice".

"The machine" has ran her over, chewed her up, and spit her out. She did not point that gun at anyone, Alec Baldwin did. She did not cock that hammer, Alec Baldwin did. She did not pull that trigger, Alec Baldwin did. She did not even hand that gun to Alec Baldwin, David Halls did. She was not even on the set when this happened, she was away at lunch. There were two other people, at least, who had handled that gun before Alec Baldwin killed Halyna Hutchins with it.

Why this now? From what you say it wasn't lunchtime. She was AWOL. Any set I have been on (not many) everyone eats at once.

Too many different versions going around. Someone should read the court transcript and see if they can figure it out. I can't and I'm glad I wasn't on the jury. I can say how I feel I might have voted, but I really don't have the facts.

Does anyone except those that were there? And how much was the truth anyway? I'll bet that the Baldwin version goes into much more detail... or legal maneuvers. What if Baldwin is found guilty even if no sentence. Does that open the HG-R appeals situation? Does she have money for an appeal or just takes this in the ass.

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Does she have money for an appeal or just takes this in the ass.

She shouldn't waste her money on an appeal, so...





Honestly, I think she's just a dumb young lady that had no ability or business doing what she was doing (by virtue of her father's reputation). I believe the terms of her sentence only allow 15% time off for good behavior, so she'll serve a little over 15 months. She needs the life lesson and is getting off easy considering her lack of responsibility.

Another example of her lack of judgment:

https://nypost.com/2021/10/27/rust-armorer-hannah-gutierrez-reed-tied-to-friends-death/

Her work on The Old Way includes some incredible lapses of judgment, if the allegations are true. The stories vary.

[Arizona_928]

She also has a pending charge for bringing a spoon into a NM bar

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by Zeke

Why this now? From what you say it wasn't lunchtime. She was AWOL. Any set I have been on (not many) everyone eats at once.

Too many different versions going around. Someone should read the court transcript and see if they can figure it out. I can't and I'm glad I wasn't on the jury. I can say how I feel I might have voted, but I really don't have the facts.

Does anyone except those that were there? And how much was the truth anyway? I'll bet that the Baldwin version goes into much more detail... or legal maneuvers. What if Baldwin is found guilty even if no sentence. Does that open the HG-R appeals situation? Does she have money for an appeal or just takes this in the ass.

Over the course of this now couple years long discussion, I have learned a great deal about the rules under which Hollywood handles firearms on set. They do not follow the rules established in or by the firearms world which, at first, I had a very hard time accepting. I can now accept why they do what they do, even if it flies in the face of everything I was ever taught about safe gun handling.

From what I understand, they hold the armorer responsible for everything. Fine. Fine, that is, if they follow their own rules. In this case, they did not follow their own rules, yet they still hold the armorer responsible. They want to "have their cake and eat it too".

Under Hollywood rules, no one handles any firearm that was not handed to them by the armorer, who has verified its condition before handing it over. That did not happen here. David Halls picked that gun up from an unattended table or cart, in the absence of the armorer. She was not on the set. The original story was that she was away at lunch. Doesn't matter - the salient point is that she was not there, David Halls knew she was not there, but picked up that firearm anyway, in violation of their own rules.

He did this right in front of Alec Baldwin, who was also quite aware that she was not there. Alec Baldwin accepted that gun from David Halls after having watched him pick it from from an unattended table or cart, with Guiterez-Reed nowhere to be seen. He was violating his own rules, and he knew it. Both of them knew it, yet proceeded anyway.

Regardless of which set of rules Hall or Baldwin followed, those of the real firearms world or their own Hollywood rules, had they followed either, Halyna Hutchins would still be alive. They are trying to say that Guiterez-Reed was "responsible" under their rules, yet they did not follow their rules in her absence. She had no chance to verify the condition of that gun before Halls handled it, because she was not even present. Had Halls left the thing alone until she got back, as their own rules demand, none of this would have happened. If Baldwin had refused to take possession of that gun from Halls because she was not there, as their rules demand, none of this would have happened. To hold her responsible for the outcome after two men had broken their own rules, in her absence, is unconscionable.

[greglepore]

Jeff-agree with all of what you said other than there were "rules" that she broke or allowed to be broken. If the armorer isn't with the firearms, they should be locked away. If the firearm is loaded, the armorer needs to KNOW what is in the gun. She didn't, obviously.
There's a lot of blame to go around here, including Hall, who has pled guilty, and probably Baldwin as well, but Hannah has her own share of the load.
FWIW, the entire trial was livestreamed. As a former litigator, I watched 90% of it out of boredom/curiosity. She wasn't railroaded.

[MMARSH]

Why didn't she secure the firearm when she left the set? How did live ammo make it onto a movie set to begin with? She was the Armorer, she was ultimately responsible. That doesn't mean that Alec Baldwin was not responsible at all.

[Zeke]

Well, the poor horse is getting beaten again. I thought the armorer was supposed to keep all guns locked up while not in the presence of them. She should have been fired on the spot for leaving the gun(s) on a cart and disappearing. Possibly that is why she was charged.

You (Jeff) are correct (IMO) about Halls and Baldwin having culpability by not summoning HG-R before handling firearms. It's a 3-way CF to me, except Halls got the easy way out. We'll see what happens next.

[Jeff Higgins]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Jeff-agree with all of what you said other than there were "rules" that she broke or allowed to be broken. If the armorer isn't with the firearms, they should be locked away.

Did she break them on her own volition, or did she break them under pressure from Alec Baldwin?

It came to light very early on that she was not the only one who had either the key or the combination to the gun lock-up. It came out that Baldwin insisted he had access as well. The fact that all firearms were not locked up when she was off set is, to my understanding, a violation of "Hollywood rules". Did she "allow" that, or did Baldwin insist on that? Further, handling those firearms while she was off set was yet another violation of their rules, and both Halls and Baldwin knew that. They are both very experienced.

Originally Posted by greglepore

If the firearm is loaded, the armorer needs to KNOW what is in the gun. She didn't, obviously.

How could she? She wasn't there.

Originally Posted by greglepore

There's a lot of blame to go around here, including Hall, who has pled guilty, and probably Baldwin as well, but Hannah has her own share of the load.
FWIW, the entire trial was livestreamed. As a former litigator, I watched 90% of it out of boredom/curiosity. She wasn't railroaded.

Yes, a lot of blame to go around. I'm not saying she is completely blameless. If nothing else, she is guilty of not standing up to Baldwin and refusing his out of the ordinary, unsafe demands. It sounds like she was placed "in charge" of the firearms, but was not actually allowed to be in charge. She should never have compromised firearms safety, even if ultimately it cost her her job, so she is responsible at some level. Just not "manslaughter".

To make matters worse, it sounds as though she is being sentenced more for her disparaging remarks about the judge than she is for her negligence on the set.

[Arizona_928]

Can’t call it a roo’ court without the judge listening in and punishing one for the 1A.

[Zeke]

Seems like the quote function is not working at the moment.

"To make matters worse, it sounds as though she is being sentenced more for her disparaging remarks about the judge than she is for her negligence on the set."

Yes, that would seem so but the other side of the issue here is that sentencing to prison time would be the default. Getting a lighter sentence would be a choice for the judge to make. The judge was likely pissed at HG-R's behavior and could not look past it. IDT I could either.

HG-R's defiance would have served her better if it came at the appropriate time. I might agree that she is being punished for being stupid as well as negligent.

As I have said, IMO, the situation now lies with Baldwin. We'll see where that goes.

The disparity is palpable. Halls gets a bye and HG-R gets the slammer. Where oh where does Baldwin fall?

[911 Rod]

Docudrama coming to Netflix this fall?

[Steve Carlton]

David Halls made a very smart choice to plead out for his involvement, which is significant. He took the pistol off the cart (that I believe HG-R loaded and left there), "inspected" it, and called it out as a "cold gun." I'm pretty sure he had no authority to do that, either. He must have provided useful testimony (or will) to get the sweetheart deal he got, unless the prosecution was incompetent.

[greglepore]

I'd suspect HGR was offered a similar deal and rejected it. Acceptance of responsibility factors heavily in these things.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

Docudrama coming to Netflix this fall?

I hope not. There is no substance to this unless corruption is discovered.

Agree on Halls deal based on his contributions. I didn't think of that part.

[Jeff Higgins]

One final thought on this. It seems that much of the "responsibility" assigned to Guiterrez-Reed is owing to the fact that she had left the guns out while she was away from the set. That somehow that compounds, or adds to her culpability.

Hmm... my wife and I share a home with two dogs, Ed and Tilly (known locally as "the planning committee"). You guys have all "met" them:



Like most folks, our household has rules. These two clowns are expected to obey the ones they understand, the ones targeted at their behavior.

Let's say I'm settling in on a Sunday afternoon to watch the F1 race or something. Thing One and Thing Two are either laying on the floor, or more likely the couch. I go to the kitchen to make myself a sandwich and, when I'm done, I return to the living room and place it on the coffee table. This does not go unnoticed...

Then I realize I should have poured myself a glass of milk, so I return to the kitchen, leaving my sandwich on the coffee table, in easy reach or Dumb and Dumber. And they never touch it. Because, well - rules. They know the rules.

Then maybe I realize I should hit the bathroom before I really settle in. I simply walk down the hall, leaving the sandwich and glass of milk on the coffee table. I have absolutely no worries that either of them would ever touch my sandwich. Because, again, they know the rules. Hell, I could go out and mow the lawn, leaving that sandwich right in front of them on the coffee table for hours. And they wouldn't touch it. They know the rules.

They both realize, of course, that when I return and before I finish that sandwich, they will both get a bite. But they know full well that as long as I'm gone, it's off limits.

I would have hoped that Halls and Baldwin are at least as smart as my dogs, and at least as well disciplined. They proved otherwise. Both are seasoned veterans. Both know the rules. Guiterrez-Reed should have been able to leave those guns out, in the company of adult, responsible humans, without a worry in the world. They are not dogs. They are not children. The fact that they decided to break their own rules and mess with those guns while she was gone is on them, not her.

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

What a travesty of "justice".

"The machine" has ran her over, chewed her up, and spit her out. She did not point that gun at anyone, Alec Baldwin did. She did not cock that hammer, Alec Baldwin did. She did not pull that trigger, Alec Baldwin did. She did not even hand that gun to Alec Baldwin, David Halls did. She was not even on the set when this happened, she was away at lunch. There were two other people, at least, who had handled that gun before Alec Baldwin killed Halyna Hutchins with it.

Alec Baldwin shares some responsibility but, in my opinion, the Armorer had total responsibility which includes not having live ammunition on the set.