Baltimore Bridge collapse

[jrj3rd]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

With so much weight and inertia involved, it would make sense to have tugs escort ships out of the harbor to avoid such a catastrophe. I'm sure that would be expensive, but this illustrates the downside. I know hindsight is 20/20, but this should have been anticipated.

I wonder if not replacing the bridge and re-routing traffic is feasible. Not replacing the Embarcadero Freeway after it collapsed seems to have been a big plus overall.

The ship was moving at 8+ knots. At that speed and size the tugs would be along for the ride and useless.

[Seahawk]

Originally Posted by jrj3rd

The ship was moving at 8+ knots. At that speed and size the tugs would be along for the ride and useless.

100%.

Once underway, with steerage, a ship the size of the Dali is like a planet in orbit a tug cannot influence.

I am really interested in the truth on this. I only drove ships for a year but the nuances of getting in and out of port are briefed, at least in the Navy, in detail by the Navigator to the watch team.

[Steve Carlton]

Not so sure. Some think tugs could have averted this disaster. Some ships are much bigger, but I don't know if they go to Baltimore or not. Maybe we're 'gonna need a bigger tug.' If you're referring to stopping the Dali's forward momentum, I would agree that a huge job. But what about pushing it perpendicularly in a different direction?

I think it's time for some change.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2024/03/27/tugboats-baltimore-key-bridge-disaster/73123627007/

[TimT]

I've calculated a few times, the force that ship struck that pier with.

Not really relevant because the answer is with a lot more force that the pier could resist..


I had a feeling this crane was headed to the site..

https://www.lohud.com/story/news/2024/03/29/largest-floating-crane-at-baltimore-site-not-left-coast-lifter/73142285007/

Kind of odd knowing you have worked in a niche sort of career and know where 1000 ton capable barge cranes are located....

[pmax]

[G50]

Originally Posted by Scott Douglas

It also lost power and thus the ability to steer it.

I haven’t followed this, but I did see the video.

If it lost power, why was it billowing huge black smoke in the entire half a minute before it hit the bridge?

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by G50

I haven’t followed this, but I did see the video.

If it lost power, why was it billowing huge black smoke in the entire half a minute before it hit the bridge?

That was when they recovered power and went full throttle astern.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

Not so sure. Some think tugs could have averted this disaster. Some ships are much bigger, but I don't know if they go to Baltimore or not. Maybe we're 'gonna need a bigger tug.' If you're referring to stopping the Dali's forward momentum, I would agree that a huge job. But what about pushing it perpendicularly in a different direction?

I think it's time for some change.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2024/03/27/tugboats-baltimore-key-bridge-disaster/73123627007/

I think a good size tug on either side of the bow could certainly steer a vessel this size much like bow thrusters. Ultimately, this is how they dock them when currents and the wind aren’t cooperating.

Going slow, they have very limited steering.

I had more than one log ship get all bent out of shape in the shipping lane in Trevor Channel on the west coast of Vancouver Island back in the day when I was dragging for shrimp there… they wouldn’t charge course until I called Tofino Traffic on channel 73… Tofino Traffic quickly reminded them that the active commercial fishing vessels in the area had the right of way. They had limited steering, I had none with a shrimp net 1200’ behind me in ~100 fathoms of water.

[berettafan]

Whoa too cool we have a waterman here! What sort of shrimp were you catching there?

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by berettafan

Whoa too cool we have a waterman here! What sort of shrimp were you catching there?

Pink shrimp and sometimes side stripes. If we towed in the shallow side of the channel, we could catch a pile of prawns which were larger.

We had a 47’ Japanese beam trawl net and it worked pretty well. We also had a door trawl that towed a lot faster but didn’t fish as well.

This boat, the Darlene T, wasn’t well setup for shrimping as it was originally built for Gillnetting salmon on the Fraser River and we converted it for salmon trolling as well. It would only hold 1500-2000 lbs of shrimp because you would do 30% ice. We added a deck tote so I could take another 700 pounds of shrimp before we had to deliver.

I could fill the boat in a day and a half but then it was a 2 day turn around run to Ucluelet to deliver.

At 17, I was the youngest skipper on the west coast.

[berettafan]

Skipper at 17? That is crazy!

[greglepore]

Originally Posted by G50

I haven’t followed this, but I did see the video.

If it lost power, why was it billowing huge black smoke in the entire half a minute before it hit the bridge?

Attempt to restart. The explanation I heard was that they use compressed air to spin the diesel and the restart creates a plume.

[hcoles]

Some initial RCA thoughts coming in relate to possible contaminated fuel taken on at the port. Very early to know, could be something completely different.

[rfuerst911sc]

And it was initially reported that the belch of black smoke was from the generator coming online and not the engines . There are lots of questions and there will be answers but only after a thorough investigation .

[stevej37]

^^^ Wonder if it is driven like a locomotive? The engine charges the batteries and the batteries drive the wheels or prop?

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by greglepore

Attempt to restart. The explanation I heard was that they use compressed air to spin the diesel and the restart creates a plume.

Any big old pre emission diesel does this. Leave it idle for a period of time and when you rev it up, it makes a cloud (before rolling coal was a thing).

My gravel truck does it, my old case tractor does it, the fish boat I ran did it. Pretty normal. My newer tractor with tier 4 emissions, does not smoke at all.

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by stevej37

^^^ Wonder if it is driven like a locomotive? The engine charges the batteries and the batteries drive the wheels or prop?

I don't think this ship has the more flexible design where the engines turn generators which power electric motors, one on each shaft. They really don't have to use batteries in the way I think you meant. It would be helpful if someone here knows what the propulsion and generator system layout is on the ship in question. I'm guessing (WAG) two main direct-drive engines and at least two aux. generators.

[schwarz633]

Originally Posted by hcoles

I don't think this ship has the more flexible design where the engines turn generators which power electric motors, one on each shaft. They really don't have to use batteries in the way I think you meant. It would be helpful if someone here knows what the propulsion and generator system layout is on the ship in question. I'm guessing (WAG) two main direct-drive engines and at least two aux. generators.

According to Dr. Salvatore Mercogliano on YouTube, it's a single engine, single fixed pitch screw. He say's it's direct drive and requires 8-9 minutes to reverse the engine and achieve reverse propulsion.

[hcoles]

Originally Posted by schwarz633

According to Dr. Salvatore Mercogliano on YouTube, it's a single engine, single fixed pitch screw. He say's it's direct drive and requires 8-9 minutes to reverse the engine and achieve reverse propulsion.

Excellent. Thanks. That's a good YouTube Channel.

A more modern layout might be something like this. I think these newer systems are more robust at tolerating failures.

[Sooner or later]

Oklahoma today

https://www.newson6.com/story/66086506279eaf1f2b6c6efe/bridge-closed-near-sallisaw-due-to-barge-collision


A bridge has been closed near Sallisaw due to a barge crashing into it according to the Oklahoma Highway Patrol.

The bridge on US Highway 59 is south of Sallisaw at the Kerr Reservoir. Traffic is being diverted from the bridge until it can be inspected, according to OHP