Baltimore Bridge collapse

[TimT]

This is a major artery into L.A. At first they were talking 3 to 5 weeks. They did it in less than 10 days.

No way is something like that going to happen here...

Depending on the design of the replacement...i.e. steel truss, precast concrete, cable stayed, simply procuring and fabricating the the various elements takes time.. Evn though this project will definately be "accelerated"

Steel mills don't have stock of millions of pounds of various shapes "in-stock", with a project like this pressure will be put on the mills to "cut the line" and roll the required shapes for this bridge ahead of current orders..

Ordering bulk steels shapes usually takes months.. and certain shapes are not even rolled in the States..

Many of the jobs I've worked on have a Buy American Clause in the specs.. One job in particular the contactors detailer specified a shape that was not rolled in the States... an exception was made because of time constraints and redesign costs.. The shapes were sourced from a mill in Germany

Just some pics from the Manual of Steel Construction.. I have the Silver more recent addition somewhere..

The designer has to strike a balance of the lightest member, the most economical construction method, availability, domesticity.

Mill don't have stock of all the various weights of shapes.. Contractor need to order the shapes, then wait in line for the mills to produce the members required.. The the raw product is shipped to a fabricator to cut and drill the pieces.. mills sometimes only cut certain lengths.. So if you need a 46' member, and the mill only supplies 50 footers... you get 4' of waste on every piece...

What goes on behind the scenes to build infrastructure is really remarkable...

Some shots from the Steel Manual







Founds this calc in the Manual... have no Idea what I was designing..

[TimT]

This is NOT a concern. We have pipelines all over the place here

Apparently you've never seen the results of a fracture high pressure line..

If the bridge sinking impacted the pipeline.. there can be damage removed from the point of impact..

Also gas leaking underground has this odd habit of following the trench.. makes for interesting situations in populated areas

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by TimT

Apparently you've never seen the results of a fracture high pressure line..

If the bridge sinking impacted the pipeline.. there can be damage removed from the point of impact..

Also gas leaking underground has this odd habit of following the trench.. makes for interesting situations in populated areas

Don't be so sure... I've been the professional engineer that did the failure analysis on fractured and blown high pressure lines (rated to 15,000 psi) several times. And I've written peer reviewed SPE papers on the matter, one made the JPT.

We also deal with sour gas pipelines here - not something you have much of in the US. When H2S leaks, people die. Failures involving H2S usually involve HIC but thats a different story.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by TimT

No way is something like that going to happen here...

If this was a priority, there would be several parallel paths already in play. I'm not sure there are.

One of those paths would be reviewing the original design to see what changes could be made to bring it up to 'current day standards' and replicated it which is likely the fastest and simplist path.

Another path would be looking at what options exist for temporary (floating?) bridging with a (re)movable section to enable ship traffic.

Complete replacement would be another path.

I imagine a concrete plant will be setup very close by - this is something that will be needed regardless of the path chosen and could be happening now. Are they looking at concrete suppliers yet?

Steel procurement could also be taking place. Form factor yet to be determined, but the quantities needed are several mill runs. Where are we at with this? I expect the steel grade will be fairly standard regardless of the design path.

There are lots of other things anyone who has ever been involved in construction PM could point out that aren't on the critical path yet but will be when they stop making excuses and start doing stuff.

[A930Rocket]

Originally Posted by flatbutt

As I recall Philly did something similar

https://billypenn.com/2023/06/11/highway-collapse-philadelphia-i95-truck-fire/

Atlanta had a fire under one of their freeway bridges and repaired it quickly as well.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by TimT

No way is something like that going to happen here...

Depending on the design of the replacement...-snip-

Tim - thanks for your commentary here. Please continue at your discretion. Thanks!

[flatbutt]

Sonar images of the submerged wreckage

https://www.dvidshub.net/image/8316597/navy-3d-sonar-images-reveals-challenges-salvaging-baltimores-francis-scott-key-bridge-wreckage

[stevej37]

By-pass channel is open and being used for smaller vessels.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/first-vessel-uses-alternate-channel-131420802.html

[HobieMarty]

https://youtu.be/kz9pc6_ZiIM?si=VCwIB4nT7jhtQnHP

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Sooner or later]

^^^

Thanks, I like his updates

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by HobieMarty

https://youtu.be/kz9pc6_ZiIM?si=VCwIB4nT7jhtQnHP

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

SPOT ON!

When 'everyone' is in charge, nobody is in charge, hence the scattered approach that I elluded to above.

It is great to see the crane and barges starting to remove debris. I also like the idea of a bypass channel, albeit shallow.

[GH85Carrera]

I saw on the news that the Singapore company that owns the ship has filed papers saying they are not responsible. Yea right. Just keep the ship and cargo until their insurance company pays for the cleanup and new bridge.

[WPOZZZ]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

I saw on the news that the Singapore company that owns the ship has filed papers saying they are not responsible. Yea right. Just keep the ship and cargo until their insurance company pays for the cleanup and new bridge.

What I read was they used some 1851 Maritime law to limit their liability to the value of the ship.

https://fortune.com/2024/04/01/baltimore-francis-scott-key-bridge-liability-cap-44-million-singapore/

[HobieMarty]

https://youtu.be/l-DAZqTZCb8?si=D9M2LvpAfO5F8Gvm

Long video but really informative.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by WPOZZZ

What I read was they used some 1851 Maritime law to limit their liability to the value of the ship.

That's like saying because my POS car is only worth $500, that's the maximum I should be liable for if I crash into your car/house/family. Start freezing their assets and sell them off if need be to pay for this cleanup and loss of business/income.

[HobieMarty]

https://youtu.be/72SlDMN7_7A?si=48p34wCyiVrAz3lx

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[TimT]

This is for the tinfoil hat crowd

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2024-04-03/what-do-a-top-secret-cia-mission-and-the-maryland-bridge-wreck-have-in-common-well-the-same-crane

[Steve Carlton]

Originally Posted by TimT

This is for the tinfoil hat crowd

https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2024-04-03/what-do-a-top-secret-cia-mission-and-the-maryland-bridge-wreck-have-in-common-well-the-same-crane

How so?

[pmax]

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by pmax

what is that?