Public Shaming, not like it used to be

[Tobra]

So the wife and I just took a trip across the southwest, encompassing a visit to Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico and the North Rim of the Grand Canyon in Arizona. Highly recommend the North Rim, a bit off the beaten path, but it was not crowded or hot on the Fourth of July weekend.

We were about to Abilene, lunch stop at Schlotsky's Deli for the Original, when I started thinking maybe we would not get there. Wife was very excited about seeing the bats. I did not think we would make it. Knew where we were, when sunset was, would be close either way. Right up until the wife says, "The clock on the radio is wrong." Time change, made it easily. Bats smell like ammonia and musty, astounding how many there were. "Bat tornado" is an apt description. Initially there were lots of swallows and no bats. Bird is a graceful flier. Bats look like they just started flying this morning. I see a couple, then the tornado starts. There were big black clouds of bats that moved away in the direction the ranger said they would. Astounding number of bats. People were pretty well behaved. The wife gave some family with a little kid who was better behaved than I was at that age, the stink eye.

Next day we have an 08:30 reservation. They limit the number of entries per hour, it sells out. When we were leaving, there was a family from Nebraska that was going to have to try again tomorrow.

They give you the talk before going in, don't touch stuff, don't throw coins in, the pools down there may take millenia to form, the rock formations are deposits of limestone, that collect on the ceiling, or the floor, or make a column when they connect, etc, geology nerdgasm. Your greasy, grubby hands ruin whatever they touch down there, unless it is the metal railing, which is cool, literally and figuratively.

Anyways, they gave us the talk, prior to going in.

When you walk in the natural entrance, it is pretty steep. There are lots of switchbacks, the effect being that the people behind you are a bit above you. There are a lot of places where they were backlit, and we were in shadow. There was a girl with the two parents, 10 years old, again better behaved than I would have been, but my parents would have had better sense to take my 10 year old ass to a place where "do not put your hands on anything" is part of the instructions.

I had already picked up a paper towel that was stuck in one of the lights, so I was feeling a bit salty. I look up and see the mother reaching over the railing, about to put both her hands on a smooth stalagmite that is temptingly close to the path.

"DON'T PUT YOUR HANDS ON THAT," I say. She jumps back and looks around, uncertain where the reprimand came from. My wife looks at me like she is going to take my pocket knife away from me and stab me to death, "SHUT UP TOBY, she will hear you"

I want her to hear me, she needs to hear me. Why do you think their kid acts like that. The wife looks around, decides not to kill me, but make it clear I best STFU. We continue on to the "bottomless pit" Not actually bottomless, it turns out. On the L side of the path, there is a beautiful pool, maybe 10 x 20 yards, difficult to tell how deep. Just then, I spy, with my little eye, a dime in this otherwise pristine pool, almost 1000 feet underground. That sort of revved me up a little, but the wife poking me in the kidney was enough for me to stay quiet. It is not particularly well lit in parts of this path. I see someone up ahead that is ducking under the railing, right on top of the rock. I walked right up to them, close enough they could feel me standing over them. 3 guys in orange Park Service vests, dusting the rocks with a little 2 inch dry paint brush. "Sorry guys, was just about to yell at you for touching the rocks." They found it very amusing. The wife did not, and thought it was odd that I was picking up trash at the National Parks we visited.

Two things I guess.

Can public shaming be effective still?

and

Is it weird that I was sticking empty water bottles in my pockets at the Grand Canyon?

[Gogar]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.

[rwest]

I do a tad bit of shaming almost daily. Seems people driving in the neighborhood have a difficult time understanding the hexagon shaped signs that say “STOP” on them.

I will give them a dirty look as they are about to drive through without coming to something even close to a complete stop. Many will actually stop as soon as they are able, even if that is several feet after the sign.

Lots of close calls while I’m walking the dog- they look for cars as they are approaching, but easily miss pedestrians- which is why they put up stop signs in lots of places.

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Gogar

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men should do nothing.

LOL ..... "Shut up Toby ... she will hear your"

[A930Rocket]

There are times I wish I had a megaphone in my truck, so I could scold people who drop their cigarettes or trash, out the window.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by rwest

I do a tad bit of shaming almost daily. Seems people driving in the neighborhood have a difficult time understanding the hexagon shaped signs that say “STOP” on them.

I will give them a dirty look as they are about to drive through without coming to something even close to a complete stop. Many will actually stop as soon as they are able, even if that is several feet after the sign.

Lots of close calls while I’m walking the dog- they look for cars as they are approaching, but easily miss pedestrians- which is why they put up stop signs in lots of places.

And this is why there are no real super heros with super powers. For folks that are driving fast through a neighborhood or not stopping at stop signs it would be fun to make them suddenly see something in front of them, a wall, their parents/loved ones, etc....

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

There are times I wish I had a megaphone in my truck, so I could scold people who drop their cigarettes or trash, out the window.

It would be so much more fun to have telekinetic powers and to be able to not only throw their trash into their car, but also a bunch of other crap.

[GH85Carrera]

Back when I was 14, we stopped at Carlsbad on our cross country drive to San Fransisco to get on a plane for our second move to Hawaii. My mom, born in 1930 had been to Carlsbad when she was young. She remembered the wonder of "the bottomless pit" and how we would love it. The ranger used his flashlight to show us the bottom of the bottomless pit. What a let down. He said when the first explorers of the caverns threw a lantern down in it, the flame blew out on the trip down and it landed in mud, so no sound. Long ago they had climbed down and picked up a lot of trash and that lantern.

I was disappointed that the cave was that small as we approached the "great room" and then astonished how big it was. We watched the bats that evening.

On the same trip we stopped at meteor crater. They would let you walk to the bottom. My brother and I were in great shape as teenagers. No big deal, we walked down to a shack, looked around and walked out.

[Dixie]

Originally Posted by Tobra

My wife looks at me like she is going to take my pocket knife away from me...

That's the "it's not what you do, it's how you do it" look. Me, I probably would have stabbed you, just not too deep.

Originally Posted by Tobra

Is it weird that I was sticking empty water bottles in my pockets at the Grand Canyon?

Not at all, and if they're left behind by someone else you earned bonus points.

[masraum]

No, public shaming is not likely to be effective most of the time these days. The folks that you are likely to be trying to shame don't give a sheiße. And these days, rather than being shamed, it would not be surprising for them to lash out in retaliation.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Reminds me of this past weekend. I go into a small grocery store. In the parking lot, are two ladies who are incensed an owner has left their dogs in the car to go in store. Two ladies are on the phone and complaining about the owner.

So there are three opinions. 1. Dog owner who felt it was safe to leave them in car. 2. Lady one (who did not) and 3. Lady Two who did not.

As I walk by, it is apparent the ladies want to involve me in this. Enter opinion #4. The windows are open, it's not that hot out, a good breeze is blowing, and the owner will most likely be right out in a second (It's a small store). The dogs appear in no distress, more interested in the attention.

I want no part of this. Too much drama. I walk in and get my stuff. Guy walks out and gets lambasted by ladies. Ladies are all up in arms.

Drama fest. I wanted no part of it, but even me just "walking by" denotes an opinion on my part. Ughhh.....

[masraum]

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

Reminds me of this past weekend. I go into a small grocery store. In the parking lot, are two ladies who are incensed an owner has left their dogs in the car to go in store. Two ladies are on the phone and complaining about the owner.

So there are three opinions. 1. Dog owner who felt it was safe to leave them in car. 2. Lady one (who did not) and 3. Lady Two who did not.

As I walk by, it is apparent the ladies want to involve me in this. Enter opinion #4. The windows are open, it's not that hot out, a good breeze is blowing, and the owner will most likely be right out in a second (It's a small store). The dogs appear in no distress, more interested in the attention.

I want no part of this. Too much drama. I walk in and get my stuff. Guy walks out and gets lambasted by ladies. Ladies are all up in arms.

Drama fest. I wanted no part of it, but even me just "walking by" denotes an opinion on my part. Ughhh.....

I get it, I'm an animal guy, and detest folks that treat animals badly, but people these days have lost their minds and don't use common sense when getting excited about things. They love to get righteously excited about things.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Originally Posted by masraum

I get it, I'm an animal guy, and detest folks that treat animals badly, but people these days have lost their minds and don't use common sense when getting excited about things. They love to get righteously excited about things.

^That was my take. Righteous excitement. When I walked by, there was almost an audible gasp- not only did some idiot (Dog owner ) commit such a heinous act, Joe Q. public (me) doesn't even seem to care as I stroll right on by.

[David Inc.]

Originally Posted by masraum

No, public shaming is not likely to be effective most of the time these days. The folks that you are likely to be trying to shame don't give a sheiße. And these days, rather than being shamed, it would not be surprising for them to lash out in retaliation.

This. People doing ****ty things without care are much more likely to react with hostility than apologies, because now here comes some bossy jerk making them feel bad about doing something they do all the time.

Reminds me. I was driving down a multi-lane highway in the snow and someone in an adjacent lane left a gap in traffic to let a car cut across all lanes for a turn. I had to slam on the brakes and slide to a halt, narrowly avoiding the car making the turn. I rolled down my window and yelled at the guy "Hey, don't let people through like that, it's dangerous!" To which he replied, "Don't tell me what to do, *****!" *****!" **** YOU!"

Anyway. Carlsbad really is beautiful, my parents took me there when I was eight and I did a very nice job not touching anything.

[URY914]

There seems to be a lot more of people telling others what to do and how to do it these days. Not a good thing as everyone has a cellphone camera and half of them are packing. Minding your own business unless it is a dire emergency is my thought.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by David Inc.

This. People doing ****ty things without care are much more likely to react with hostility than apologies, because now here comes some bossy jerk making them feel bad about doing something they do all the time.

yup.

i also dislike when strangers try to parent other people's children. its a bad situation, i get it, but like jumping in yourself doesnt help. and its a weird thing to make a thread about frankly.

[wdfifteen]

Originally Posted by masraum

And these days, rather than being shamed, it would not be surprising for them to lash out in retaliation.

Exactly. Americans are a proud people who won't tolerate being told what to do, even when it is stupid, destructive, dangerous, or an inconvenience to others.
"Me first!" is our national mantra.

[cockerpunk]

Originally Posted by wdfifteen

Exactly. Americans are a proud people who won't tolerate being told what to do, even when it is stupid, destructive, dangerous, or an inconvenience to others.
"Me first!" is our national mantra.

if the pandemic taught us one thing about america, its this. grown men having meltdowns in target.

[URY914]

Boomers

[1990C4S]

Nobody cuts in line in front of me without getting shamed. Costco is the most common occurrence.

Anything from 'the lineup rules apply to you too, jackass' to 'there a little old lady two spots ahead, you could push your way in there and save another two minutes'.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Shamelessness is becoming normalized in our culture. Shame has become replaced with

Denialism: it wasn't me, I didn't do it

Redefinition: what I did wasn't that bad or it wasn't bad at all or what was accepted as bad is now good, I am good

Redirection: why are you attacking me victim mentality, YOU should be ashamed