Would you ride in a robotaxi?

[john70t]

A few more possible inputs exist at ground level.
(sorry but it needed to be said)

Jackhat going on his 4th DUI/reckless/assault but still on the road traps you on a bad street and starts smashing? How will robotaxi respond?

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by masraum

Give me self checkout EVERY time! The less that I have to deal with people, the better.

I want those people employed

[aigel]

The old man yelling at cloud is strong in this thread.

Absolutely would ride in a waymo.

Not in a Tesla, but that’s because it is not really self driving with a person in the front seat … and after experimenting with FSD myself.

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by Seahawk

With your experience, can you recommend an overview of a system, or systems, to help folks like me catch up?

This overview is pretty good: https://medium.com/data-science/a-crash-course-of-planning-for-perception-engineers-in-autonomous-driving-ede324d78717

My quick and dirty overview:
The autonomous driving "stack" is generally broken into a few modular areas which are sensor, perception, prediction, planning, and finally controls.
Sensors: hardware in the sensor array such as lidar, radar, camera, microphones, pressure sensors, GPS, etc etc
Perception: this is software which interprets the sensor data. Broadly speaking, this intake and interpretation of sensor data utilizes AI technologies that fall under the blanket of "Computer Vision" which is the same branch of AI which is used to detect tumors and stuff like that. Perception answers questions like "what is that thing over there" and "is that traffic light green" and "is that a dog or a coyote."
Prediction: software which takes the perception as input and draws conclusions around future path of the objects (cars, pedestrians, street lights) identified by perception. Prediction answers questions like "where is that cyclist going to be in 1 second, 5 seconds, 20 seconds?" and "that car which I saw a second ago but which is now no longer visible because there is a bus between us, where do I think it is now?" and "that siren sound I am now hearing, what kind of emergency service is that and based on the layout of the buildings in this dense urban environment and the way the sound bounces off each surface which direction do I think it is coming from?"
Planning: software which takes the perception and prediction data as inputs and decides the best course of action for the autonomous vehicle. Planning answers the question "given the nearly infinite options available to me, what is the best one to set me up for success a millisecond from now, 10 seconds from now, 5 minutes from now?"
Controls: software and hardware, this is the actuation of the steering and the brakes etc. Baked into this is stuff like "my passenger and other drivers probably won't appreciate if I brake as hard as possible even if that is legal and logical thing to do otherwise."

Originally Posted by masraum

If a human gets in an accident, that sucks, but doesn't seem crazy. If a machine gets in an accident, then that seems incomprehensible.

Yep, I feel this myself even if I know it is not logical... human drivers causing a crash every 500,000 miles is acceptable and autonomous drivers causing a crash every 9,000,000 miles is unacceptable.

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

or guy who fell off his motorcycle suddenly bouncing at you(need to veer out of lane and into brakedown lane, etc...) How does the system evaluate and decide on a course of action on what seems to be an infinite number of scenarios?

This is a great use case for autonomous driving, because the vehicle is actively anticipating and planning all of these "what if" scenarios all the time. The vehicle sees the motorcycle rider and classifies them as a vulnerable road user, fundamentally different from a car or a dog or a Cessna 150. If the motorcycle rider becomes occluded (e.g. a larger vehicle comes between the autonomous car and the rider and for some time the rider is not visible) the autonomous vehicle continues to track/remember that a motorcycle is over there, and actively anticipates the likelyhood of where and when they will next be visible and what their vectors and actions will be. If the rider suddenly comes off their bike the autonomous vehicle doesn't need to think about what to do... it already has "what if" plan and it puts that plan into action instantly and is cool as a cucumber the whole time.

Overview of the different "levels" of autonomous vehicles as defined by SAE (Tesla is level 2, Waymo/Zoox/Stack AV/Aurora are level 4)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-driving_car

[Tishabet]

Originally Posted by aigel

The old man yelling at cloud is strong in this thread.

Absolutely would ride in a waymo.

Not in a Tesla, but that’s because it is not really self driving with a person in the front seat … and after experimenting with FSD myself.

+1

The "self driving" of a tesla is worlds apart from the autonomous driving of a vehicle like Waymo but I don't think the general public realizes that.

[berettafan]

Originally Posted by Tobra

I want those people employed

Veering somewhat off topic but this is so important to me as well. Partly because I hate for people to suffer and do without and partly because i don't want to be stepping over homeless guys everywhere i go. The big lie being told right now by big tech is 'oh they'll find other more productive jobs, it'll be great!'. Big Tech KNOWS it is a lie but the greed is overwhelming.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Tishabet

This overview is pretty good: https://medium.com/data-science/a-crash-course-of-planning-for-perception-engineers-in-autonomous-driving-ede324d78717

My quick and dirty overview...

Your input in this thread is one of the things that makes this place great. Thanks again!

[john70t]

Originally Posted by Tishabet

The "self driving" of a tesla is worlds apart from the autonomous driving of a vehicle like Waymo but I don't think the general public realizes that.

Camera vs LIDAR used in Tesla. Because it's cheaper?

Both have potential flaws to my understanding.
Software will never replace human instinct.

The Tesla advertising label "self driving" should have been shut down the very minute it was conceived:
-Wrong federal classification category.
-Accepts all liability onto the company. NOT. Read the fine print. Oh wait there's more.
-You the driver are still liable.
-Especially while sleeping or getting it on in the back seat.
-Never underestimate the power of stupid.
-Toyota Corporation was almost destroyed because of a few run-away Prius acceleration events. Blamed on floor mats. Not remote hacking. No sir. Never happened.
-And that story disappeared like it never existed.
-Tesla's seem to crash into immovable objects such as cop cars and ambulances on a regular basis. I've seen a dozen internet instances of that. All disappeared from the internet.

This new technology has been tested on public roads since day one.

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Autopilot being monitored by two pilots is substantially different than fully automated driving with no driver. Not to mention the airspace at 35,000 ft is far more predicable and controlled than a side street in LA. Also you’re flying in an aircraft that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to develop and test to very rigorous FAA standards.

Tell that to the families of the Air India crash victims. Seems like at least one of those 2 pilots didn’t notice the fuel switches were turned off until it was too late.

Full automatic would not have allowed this.

[KFC911]

.... knick knack paddy whack, give a dog a bone... this old man came rolling home...

Lets's just say I'll probably always have a driver .

While I appreciate Grant's perspective (from a techie' perspective), and what might be "normal" in LA or Scottsdale ... it's in the embryonic stages from my perspective. I have never seen one, don't know the difference between Waymo or robotaxi, and frankly don't care....

Hey you .... get off of my cloud!

I'm gonna be yelling at it for a little while longer

I am not afraid of technology, AI, and complex systems ....

Are you really locked in a car and at the mercy of "code" and "network connectivity" in some of these situations?

Serious question...

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Tell that to the families of the Air India crash victims. Seems like at least one of those 2 pilots didn’t notice the fuel switches were turned off until it was too late.

Full automatic would not have allowed this.

Technically one of those pilots actually shut off the fuel switches. Last I saw they were investigating it as possibly intentional, regardless it’s gross negligence at a minimum.

But you’re assuming perfection from the computers as well, and that’s not always the case. How do you program a computer for every possible variable when sometimes things happen that have never happened before? Particularly for something as complex as a passenger airliner?

[astrochex]

From Kim Komando's latest newsletter

Rideshare nightmare roulette

⚠️ Warning: This story contains details about sexual assault that may be disturbing.

I know two women who were raped by an Uber driver. That’s not hearsay or a story I read online. They trusted the ride, believed the app was safe and paid the price in the most horrific way possible.

Now, The New York Times (paywall link) has just uncovered something you need to know: Between 2017 and 2022, Uber got a report of sexual assault or misconduct in the United States almost every eight minutes, based on sealed court records, despite the company publicly claiming such incidents were vanishingly rare.

Yes, you read that right, every eight minutes. The court documents show 400,181 trips linked to sexual misconduct in five years. Women are almost always the victims.
Publicly, Uber brags about safety

They say 99.9% of rides happen without incident. Internally, they studied the demographics and patterns like late-night pickups near bars, intoxicated passengers and low-rated drivers with past complaints.

They even tested tools to make rides safer: pairing women with female drivers, adding in-car cameras and using smarter ride-matching. But they didn’t roll them out widely.

Why not?
The shocking truth

Because it might cost too much, slow down growth or upset the way they classify drivers as “independent contractors,” not employees. That saves Uber a fortune in benefits, overtime and supervision, but it also means less oversight and accountability.

Uber’s documents show many attacks follow predictable patterns. They could have warned people. They could have stopped some of these assaults. Instead, they stayed quiet.
Rideshare rules

For starters, do not be alone in an Uber. If you must, follow these rules.

Share your trip and location in the app with a friend or family member before you get in.

Triple-check the driver and car. The license plate, make, model and photo must match exactly.

Sit in the back seat, so you have space and a quick exit if needed.

Use the in-app safety features like RideCheck and the 911 button.

Trust your gut. If something feels off, end the ride. Call 911 if you feel unsafe.

If you’ve been drinking, have a sober friend ride with you or find another way home.

Better yet, choose a Waymo or another self-driving taxi. No stranger behind the wheel means one less risk to worry about.

There is no acceptable level of assault or misconduct. Uber’s data shows this problem isn’t random, it’s systemic. Yes, there are plenty of decent law-abiding rideshare drivers, but you have to be safe.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Boy howdy some of your hugs are old skul…

Ever ride in a roboplane?

If you’ve flown recently, odds are that you have.

What’s worse?

Our little 2004 Cessna 182T has full ADS-B and it tells us where every other aircraft is at, even airliners flying above us at 35,000 feet. If anything is getting close to a course where we might get to a 1/2 mile radius, it gets really unhappy, and loud warnings. We of course can talk to the ATC, or the other aircraft before it is a close call.

I have not had an accident since 1970, when I was 16 and a new driver. One of the hottest girls in my high school was walking in front of the school, in a mini skirt that was very short, and dang she looked good. The wrong head was taking control, and some fool in front of me stopped at the red light. I rear ended him at 5 MPH as I was in a 4 wheel skid trying to stop.

I learned that day, keep your eyes on the road, not the stunning hot co-eds that my hormones wanted to look at, and use my big head to control the car.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Our little 2004 Cessna 182T has full ADS-B and it tells us where every other aircraft is at, even airliners flying above us at 35,000 feet. If anything is getting close to a course where we might get to a 1/2 mile radius, it gets really unhappy, and loud warnings. We of course can talk to the ATC, or the other aircraft before it is a close call.

I have not had an accident since 1970, when I was 16 and a new driver. One of the hottest girls in my high school was walking in front of the school, in a mini skirt that was very short, and dang she looked good. The wrong head was taking control, and some fool in front of me stopped at the red light. I rear ended him at 5 MPH as I was in a 4 wheel skid trying to stop.

I learned that day, keep your eyes on the road, not the stunning hot co-eds that my hormones wanted to look at, and use my big head to control the car.

A former coworker of mine hit a car head on because he was checking out a hot college coed tanning in the park. Turns out the other driver was too and they both had drifted to the center. The cop just laughed at them and put in his report that they swerved to avoid a dog.

[Dantilla]

Originally Posted by unclebilly

Tell that to the families of the Air India crash victims. Seems like at least one of those 2 pilots didn’t notice the fuel switches were turned off until it was too late.

Full automatic would not have allowed this.

Do you recall the Airbus demonstration disaster?
Low pass over the runway, and when the pilot advanced the throttles, the airplane "decided" that no, we're in landing configuration, so we're supposed to land.
Throttle levers moved to Max thrust, but engines did not respond, cuz the computer said so.
Brand new Airbus settled into the trees beyond the runway and exploded.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

A former coworker of mine hit a car head on because he was checking out a hot college coed tanning in the park. Turns out the other driver was too and they both had drifted to the center. The cop just laughed at them and put in his report that they swerved to avoid a dog.

Ride in a Robotaxi and you can check out the scenery all you want! The car is asexual and would not react to a bunch of naked Playboy bunnies.

Which reminded me...anyone here old enough to remember the Woody Allen film, "Sleepers?" Where the gay dudes had a gay robot? Supposed to be set in the future. That probably would not fly now but it was hilarious at the time.

[KFC911]

Does a Waymo slow down to a crawl when passing hot chicks walking?

Just doing research here

[Seahawk]

Dear Penthouse...

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

A former coworker of mine hit a car head on because he was checking out a hot college coed tanning in the park. Turns out the other driver was too and they both had drifted to the center where we merged like three Antelopes on the Serengeti...

The level of sophistication of "auto-pilots" in aircraft/unmanned systems is remarkable...but, after reading the links provided, confirmed my suspension/position that aircraft face a much less daunting environment than driver-less cars.

I'll give Waymo a whirl.

[speeder]

Just to clarify, I haven’t bothered to download the Waymo app or ride in one yet because I rarely use ride share and I’ve heard that it’s more expensive than regular Uber or Lyft but I have no problem with the safety of riding in one. They are everywhere here and they constantly amaze me with how well they drive. It’s like you’re next to or behind a car being driven by an English chauffeur who never gets mad or impatient and is never checking PPOT on his phone at a long red light.

Their left turn discipline is better than 98% of human drivers, at least.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by KFC911

Does a Waymo slow down to a crawl when passing hot chicks walking?

Just doing research here

Seems like that should be a user selectable option!