It's amazing to me how many people want an old 911...

[Jeff Higgins]

... that is nothing like an old 911. Anything from ultra modern state of the art EFI on maybe the more innocuous and less "noticeable" end of the scale to the latest I see over on the tech forum, a 996 transmission swap. LS engines, completely reconfigured suspensions and brakes and on and on. I guess I just don't get it. These are very charming, quirky little cars, dated for sure, but it seems that many are eager to remove every last vestige of their "essence", for whatever reason. Seems like not only a fool's errand to me, but even more than that, some kind of an insult, at least at some level. There is already no shortage of cars that are already what these people want their old 911 to someday become. No need to ruin another example of a finite supply of a very unique little car. Just my opinion, and obviously some disagree, I just think it's a real shame to see these cars bastardized.

[speeder]

Couldn't agree more.

[Por_sha911]

"Restomods" are high priced abortions. There I said it.

[Chocaholic]

Agree. I also cringe when I see wonderful vintage BMW motorcycles twisted into "cafe racers" and completely destroyed (to my eye). Yet, surprisingly those twisted wrecks bring astonishing money on BAT. A reminder of just how jaded or out of touch I am with what others value. I suspect the same will hold true regarding air cooled 911's transplanted with modern drivetrains (ICE or EV).

We old farts just hate to see the things we value, removed from what made them great to us. That's life fellas. I suspect our dads and grandads felt the same as they watched T-buckets rolling down Woodward.

[Deschodt]

100%.. the sheer amount of fancy backdates that sell for several hundred thousands is mind blowing to me... I even backdated an SC once and commented here how on disappointing the result truly is (mea culpa), if you have experienced a "real" F series.. it's just not the same at all... Depends what you want I guess, as you pointed out "looks with modern convenience" is what they are after.. Personally I really enjoy the raw nature of my 100% stock 72 with MFI. That injection is MAD and more of an on-off switch vs later cars, but it totally makes its charm. I once drove the same model/year as my car with a 3.2 and I thought it was "evil". Best thing I ever did was install "period" correct tires on it, size + thread pattern wise, which restored period handling (but with better modern rubber).

Not criticizing people who do these things, like you i am shocked there is such a big $$ market, is all.. Singers and the like are awesome from a technical standpoint- but for me "the way it came" is part of its charm. And at this pace my car should become invaluable thanks to its originality. I bet 964 owners are seeing a price hike because all the stock cars have GONE to restomodders.

I am also feeling the same and more about 356 outlaws honestly (with Polo engines, 911 gearboxes and suspension) - I mean some of Emory's creations are superb - no question, but at that point I wish he'd make some stampings and start from scratch instead of hoarding each and every 356A for sale.. . IMO too much cutting of old stock cars... But hey the market speaks, right ?

[Rot 911]

I think you’re seeing the difference between the boomer generation, that first had these cars, and later generations that expect all cars to have fuel injection, air conditioning that works, smooth shifting transmissions, etc. Those generations did not grow up expecting having to work on their cars.

[kach22i]

How many of us still have points?

Some changes are good, but agree things can go too far.

[Deschodt]

Originally Posted by Rot 911

I think you’re seeing the difference between the boomer generation, that first had these cars, and later generations that expect all cars to have fuel injection, air conditioning that works, smooth shifting transmissions, etc. Those generations did not grow up expecting having to work on their cars.

Maybe, but not all... I'm not a boomer (hate these generation "boxes"), born later, but my Porsche journey has generally been one of working my way backwards in time and discovering the old cars.. All my oldies has points. I did try a pertronix on a 356 20y ago and it failed (happens), went back to points on all subsequent cars..Wish I'd kept that..

[GH85Carrera]

I get regular compliments on my 85 911. It is "mostly stock" but some subtle upgrades. The AC simply works in all conditions. The heaters are stock and astonishingly good. The suspension was rebuilt with new rubber bushings, and some minor upgrades like turbo tie rods.

For a 40 year old car, it is just my perfect car. Modern enough to be comfortable, and fun on a race track or autocross, or long 12 hour day cross country drive. And it looks great.

[jhynesrockmtn]

I thought my 83 SC with the Powell built 3.2 transplant was a big change....

Then there are those electrifying these lovely cars. 914s are big in that crowd.

I did put EFI in my 77 Landcruiser. In my defense, the original carb was long gone, replaced by a crappy EMPI Weber copy.

Put me in the old guy crowd and get off of my lawn!

[oldE]

Is there much difference between a long hood with modern engine, suspension and gearbox and Yellowperil's hot rod?
The sticking point for many of us may be that we remember how nicely the early 911s drove in stock form. "Improving " such an automotive jewel loses the essence of its purpose while making it more capable.
I didn't acquire my old E until 2000, but, after getting the suspension back to where it belonged, ( either the rear torsion bars had sagged or some idiot lowered it so the heat exchangers could drag at times), I was struck by how perfect the set up was for real roads with pot holes, frost heaves, ruts and camber changes. Altering a functioning device seeking an improvement in some area usually degrades some other aspect of function.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Come on guys, this is nothing new. Look back at some of the OEM hack jobs from companies like Gemballa. Or people converting their cars to turbo flares, slant noses, turbo tails, converting Targas to cabs, etc. When I bought my first 911 in 2004 it was all about doing 2.7 RS and ST conversions and swapping 3.2s and 3.6s into earlier cars none of which I had the money for. Nothing has changed, it’s just more zeros on the check that rich guys have to write. Different strokes for different folks, I’d be happy with bone stock or modified, they are all fun.

[pmax]

[GH85Carrera]

In the end, they are just cars. Lots of them made, and they are not rare. Modify them to fit you dreams and desires.

Any modification can be put back to stock.

[wildthing]

I'm still bummed about the few 993s that got away when they were still just "old cars".

[masraum]

I LOVE the air cooled cars. I am very sad that they are now priced in a way that I'm unlikely to have another.

I get what you guys are saying about restomods and heavily modified cars.

So for you guys that hate the restomods, do you also hate Jack Olsen's car? It's heavily modified and has had a motor swap.

[look 171]

My track car is like that. Lower 3/4" with big tires, 245s out back and SC flairs. Painted Viper Green, tunnel cut up to install a 935 shifting rods. Oil line running through the interior and a big old Mazda oil cooler under the nose. Dash Plastic dash cut outs for the breather lines. Now its will be turned back into a very aggressive street car. Drove it to a local air cool cars and coffee and some new guys (I go once a year while they meet up monthly) gave me **** about cutting up a perfectly good long hood. He has a completely stock 71 T and kept telling me how sad it is for him to see another car gone to the wayside. I roll my eyes. I bet he was still getting his learner's permit when I started this project. The stock cars were not fast, and needed a bit more tires to get them to go fast. Nothing wrong doing mods. Now, it they are tastefully done, that is up for pages of debate here or over barrels of beer and we will never get an answer.

Certain age group have different taste in their auto design. My kid and I went to the largest car show in CA, San Clemente, and saw a couple older 911s. One was a 72 car with a 3.6 made to look like 3.0 RSR with fat rear fenders. He seems to like it and it drew a huge crowd. I like them too, but jsut not that one. People will do what the do and sometimes make a few bucks, just like that RWB guy cutting up fenders and install but fenders. Some people seem to like them but they aren't my taste. They look OK from 7 miles away but up close, they are just ok. Saw a couple at Rennsport followed one out the gate onto the hwy. Nothing to write home about really. I don't approve nor do I disapprove of it.

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Then there are those of us who chose the 3.6 to 4.4 L conversion path.
Having a Metzger in my 911 are good Porsche genes to have in my book.

[Por_sha911]

I can't watch Mecum auction shows. They go nuts over how wonderful a classic '69 Camaro was turned into a restomod. It is harder to do a correct restoration (and costs more as well) than to just hack up a wonderful old car and put all kinds of silly stuff on there like digital dashboard and `19 mags with rubber band tires but Mecum acts like they just invented sliced bread or a cure for cancer.

I understand that its all about the $. The abortionist who destroyed a classic and the TV show who needs those cars on TV pat each other on the back.

Yes, my `87 has a B^B exhaust and a better analog stereo (came with the car when I bought it in 2003) and I put in a 930s steering wheel (but kept the factory wheel). Those can be easily changed if I wanted to spend the coin to find the original parts. The rest is #s matching original right down to R12 AC.

Bottom line is that it is your car and you can do what you want with it.

[Jeff Higgins]

I think a few of you are missing the point. There is a huge difference between "heavily modified" (like Jack's car) and the wholesale changes some make. Hey, my car is "heavily modified", but it is done with "period correct" parts that were in widespread use on these cars back when it was new. No one racing a 911 in 1972 would look at my car (or Jack's) and wonder "what on earth is that?".

We're talking things like this 996 transmission swap, requiring the total elimination of the torsion bar tubes and all surrounding structure. We're talking a car that was recently in Excellence that began life as (I believe) a 3.2 Carrera that now has essentially a 997 GT3 suspension under it, along with its brakes. We're talking LS swaps. Electric motor swaps. Carbon brake discs.

We're not talking swapping your 2.0 "T" motor for a 2.7 RS motor. We're not talking welding RS or Turbo flares to your car. We're not talking heavier torsion and sway bars. We're not talking going from M calipers to aluminum S, or A, or wide A calipers. We're not talking adding a duck or whale tail. None of this fundamentally changes the essence, the character of the car.