I'm fed up with the blaming over NO.

[kach22i]

Bush is doing everything in his power........................allowing polluting fall and winter blends of gas into the market along with high sulfur diesel fuels and a three week pause on EPA regulations.

Cutting his fund-raising/promote the war tour short by a whole 1-hour. I'm so impressed!

http://www.10news.com/news/4915212/detail.html

Air Force One took off at about 11:45 a.m., about one hour earlier than originally planned.....................The first couple spent the night at the Hotel Del Coronado.

Such sacrifices he makes, my hero.

[1967 R50/2]

Originally posted by einreb
here's an interesting clip from an interview on CNN with Bubba and GHWB. GHWB sort of dances around things a bit (which is fine), Bubba steps in and spells out what happens and defends GWB a bit. Unfortunately for GWB... he's been a bit akward in his couple of speeches.

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/005360.php

Interesting interview. Neither GWB or GHWB have ever been able to deliver a good speech or interview in their entire political careers.

Clinton on the other hand was the master of this stuff.

I think he is right in saying you can't predict these problems... Well, you MIGHT have expected the looting, but with the city flooded, I'm not sure what you could possibly do differently than what is already being done.

In anycase, anything that Bill or George #1 can do to help out is a good thing.

As for Moore...well, I'm no neo-con, but even I realize Michael Moore is out only for himself. Trying to tie Iraq to Katrina is specious.

[TerryBPP]

Originally posted by kach22i
Bush is doing everything in his power........................allowing polluting fall and winter blends of gas into the market along with high sulfur diesel fuels and a three week pause on EPA regulations.

Cutting his fund-raising/promote the war tour short by a whole 1-hour. I'm so impressed!

http://www.10news.com/news/4915212/detail.html


Such sacrifices he makes, my hero.

Fellow blame placer ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[tobster1911]

Originally posted by MichiganMat
I After 3 days though, we better see some helicopters, some troops, some buses, and some fresh food and water from someplace.

Why????

I would still deal with it as I could.....I don't EXPECT/DEMAND that anyone take care of me. If they can/do I will be grateful for that help, but it is still MY life. I don't pass responsibility off to the gov or anyone else.

America has be come too lethargic from a constant diet of entitlement. They think that they somehow DESERVE to have everything they want handed to them.

Let me ask this....if there was not a disaster but you lost everything and could not even afford food/water. Would you still DEMAND that everyone else take care of you? Oh wait......I already know the answer.

Absolutely no one want to take responsibility for their own life anymore. It is always a race to find the best place to pin the blame. I know the situation is bad. I have and will send what aid I can but what pisses me off is that there is very little gratitude being shown for the help being sent. All I see is people complaining that "It's not enough" or "It was not quick enough". Be thankful that we even have the ability to do anthing about it at all.

[stevepaa]

Originally posted by tobster1911


Let me ask this....if there was not a disaster but you lost everything and could not even afford food/water. Would you still DEMAND that everyone else take care of you? Oh wait......I already know the answer.

Uh, No you don't. Individual problems get handled by individuals. Disaster on this scale is handled by society and in particular, by the government to which we pay taxes to provide for the common welfare.

10-20 thousand people isolated at the superdome should have been moved by Tuesday.

[TerryBPP]

Originally posted by stevepaa
Uh, No you don't. Individual problems get handled by individuals. Disaster on this scale is handled by society and in particular, by the government to which we pay taxes to provide for the common welfare.

10-20 thousand people isolated at the superdome should have been moved by Tuesday.

So because you pay taxes you have no responsiblity to fend for yourself?

[tobster1911]

Originally posted by stevepaa
Uh, No you don't. Individual problems get handled by individuals. Disaster on this scale is handled by society and in particular, by the government to which we pay taxes to provide for the common welfare.

10-20 thousand people isolated at the superdome should have been moved by Tuesday.

First, "Disaster on this scale" means that it will take time to clean up, yes?

Second, Do you really think the gov and society is doing NOTHING about this? Also I was not saying that the gov and society SHOULD do nothing, rather that people should not get so bent out of shape when they don't get the immediate solution to thier problems dropped from heaven.

Last, "10-20 thousand people isolated at the superdome should have been moved by Tuesday." Not even army troop that are prepared to mobilise can move in 1 day. You expect to move that many people completely unplanned in the same time?

[MichiganMat]

Originally posted by tobster1911
Absolutely no one want to take responsibility for their own life anymore. It is always a race to find the best place to pin the blame. I know the situation is bad. I have and will send what aid I can but what pisses me off is that there is very little gratitude being shown for the help being sent. All I see is people complaining that "It's not enough" or "It was not quick enough". Be thankful that we even have the ability to do anthing about it at all.

{BUZZER} ENNGGGG!!!!!!

"Personal foul on the lobster. 10 yard penalty. 2nd down."

I've seen the "complaining" too and the words are tough to swallow. I don't like a leech anymore than you do. The emotion is frantic, uncontrolled, and desperate, and I don't blame you for not wanting to help them, I wouldn't want to either.

But! The suffering is real, the pain is real, and I try to live by a little saying that goes like this:

"Priciples over personalities"

Just because someone acts like a doushe-bag doesn't mean they don't deserve some help. If they are shooting at you, thats one thing, but if they are just pissed off, thats something different.

And there are mechanisms in place to help Americans in times of need such as this. Black Americans, white Americans, rich, poor, angry, grateful, dangerous, and the rest. We pay for these services, we agreed to make them, and we trust them to operate. If its pork, if its not needed, we cut it and kill it and move on. Those mechanisms, I believe, have failed miserably and in a time in our nations history when they should be stronger than ever.

STRONGER THAN EVER.

[tobster1911]

Originally posted by MichiganMat
And there are mechanisms in place to help Americans in times of need such as this. Black Americans, white Americans, rich, poor, angry, grateful, dangerous, and the rest. We pay for these services, we agreed to make them, and we trust them to operate. If its pork, if its not needed, we cut it and kill it and move on. Those mechanisms, I believe, have failed miserably and in a time in our nations history when they should be stronger than ever.

And to what exactly do you attribute the failure of these mechanisms? Bush no doubt. Has it occurred to you that maybe it is because 1.) we have not "If its pork, if its not needed, we cut it and kill it and move on. " and 2.) filled these mechanisms with people who LIVE off them.

I was NEVER suggesting that they don't need/deserve our help. Simply that the attitude apon receiving that help could use LOTS of improvement.

[MichiganMat]

The Mayor speaks:

http://www.atypical.net/mm/nagin.mp3

[jyl]

Are you in touch with reality?

Here's reality. You and your family are standing in or maybe on top of what's left of your home. Almost the whole city is underwater, often to your waist or higher. There is no electricity. There is no phone, cellphone, internet. There is no drinking water. If you had a car, it is gone. The roads are underwater anyway. The food, clothes, etc in your home are underwater. The baby's diapers and food are underwater. Your parents' medicines are underwater. You're hearing shooting, seeing fires, hearing reports of armed gangs. You occasionally see police or Guard passing by, but they're not stopping/staying and they won't pick you up. After a day you were really thirsty. After three days you are really hungry. The baby, the little kids, and the old folks are doing a lot worse. There's dead bodies laying around, it stinks of sewage and feces, and its either bloody hot or its raining.

What do you do? If you're young, male and strong, maybe you start walking, trying to escape the city on foot. You have no idea how many miles you will walk or wade or swim before you find water, food, shelter - 10? 20? - but you might make it. If you're a woman, are you going to try it? Oh, do you leave the little kids and old folks behind?

Do you need help? I'll bet you do. Did you expect help to come in an hour or a day? Of course not. But it's Friday now. Are you wondering what the heck is going on? Hell yes! Oh, by the way, you've been cut off from news for days, you don't know that there's several hundred thousand refugees and you haven't heard officials saying they've sent X thousand Guardsmen and Y thousand tents. You don't have the "big picture". So, yeah, you're pretty frustrated.

Think before you post, man.

Originally posted by tobster1911
Why????

I would still deal with it as I could.....I don't EXPECT/DEMAND that anyone take care of me. If they can/do I will be grateful for that help, but it is still MY life. I don't pass responsibility off to the gov or anyone else.

America has be come too lethargic from a constant diet of entitlement. They think that they somehow DESERVE to have everything they want handed to them.

Let me ask this....if there was not a disaster but you lost everything and could not even afford food/water. Would you still DEMAND that everyone else take care of you? Oh wait......I already know the answer.

Absolutely no one want to take responsibility for their own life anymore. It is always a race to find the best place to pin the blame. I know the situation is bad. I have and will send what aid I can but what pisses me off is that there is very little gratitude being shown for the help being sent. All I see is people complaining that "It's not enough" or "It was not quick enough". Be thankful that we even have the ability to do anthing about it at all.

[artplumber]

Originally posted by tobster1911

Let me ask this....if there was not a disaster but you lost everything and could not even afford food/water. Would you still DEMAND that everyone else take care of you? Oh wait......I already know the answer.

Absolutely no one want to take responsibility for their own life anymore. ...

And that's the thing. There are all these people a day or two later thinking that the gubmint is going to rush in to a place with no airports and one half passable road and evacuate 50-100K people half of which are cut off from passable roads. No one, can mount that effort. Look at how long it takes to build up forces - for instance in the case of Iraq, months before you expect to need them.

Too many people with the "me" as the most important thing. That's why there are looters taking TV's and Nike's and threatening hospitals and healthcare workers for food & meds. No government could respond in less than a week to a cataclysm of this magnitude.

[tobster1911]

Originally posted by jyl
Are you in touch with reality?

Here's reality. You and your family are standing in or maybe on top of what's left of your home. Almost the whole city is underwater, often to your waist or higher. There is no electricity. There is no phone, cellphone, internet. There is no drinking water. If you had a car, it is gone. The roads are underwater anyway. The food, clothes, etc in your home are underwater. The baby's diapers and food are underwater. Your parents' medicines are underwater. You're hearing shooting, seeing fires, hearing reports of armed gangs. You occasionally see police or Guard passing by, but they're not stopping/staying and they won't pick you up. After a day you were really thirsty. After three days you are really hungry. The baby, the little kids, and the old folks are doing a lot worse. There's dead bodies laying around, it stinks of sewage and feces, and its either bloody hot or its raining.

What do you do? If you're young, male and strong, maybe you start walking, trying to escape the city on foot. You have no idea how many miles you will walk or wade or swim before you find water, food, shelter - 10? 20? - but you might make it. If you're a woman, are you going to try it? Oh, do you leave the little kids and old folks behind?

Do you need help? I'll bet you do. Did you expect help to come in an hour or a day? Of course not. But it's Friday now. Are you wondering what the heck is going on? Hell yes! Oh, by the way, you've been cut off from news for days, you don't know that there's several hundred thousand refugees and you haven't heard officials saying they've sent X thousand Guardsmen and Y thousand tents. You don't have the "big picture". So, yeah, you're pretty frustrated.

Think before you post, man.

Have though....for many days now. Living in CO, most of the time in the small towns, you learn to depend only on yourself. Your reality above is very bleak, but it can be dealt with. The human body is very strong unless you have forgot. Most people can go for more than a week with no food. Water is the most important followed by shelter from the environment. Concentrate on these things first. I have done several "survival" traning exercises. Go out into the mountains with Nothing but what you have on. Most cases only a few things including a pocket knife I always have. It is possible to life for days like this. I have done it...even in the winter. It is not fun...but you do what you have to. Again I say, If I was put in that position, I would make the best I could of it. Do you propose that instead I give up and EXPECT someone else to fix it for me? As long as I was breathing, I can influence and work to make things better. This is not the typical attitude you hear which is sad.

[TerryBPP]

Originally posted by jyl
Are you in touch with reality?

Here's reality. You and your family are standing in or maybe on top of what's left of your home. Almost the whole city is underwater, often to your waist or higher. There is no electricity. There is no phone, cellphone, internet. There is no drinking water. If you had a car, it is gone. The roads are underwater anyway. The food, clothes, etc in your home are underwater. The baby's diapers and food are underwater. Your parents' medicines are underwater. You're hearing shooting, seeing fires, hearing reports of armed gangs. You occasionally see police or Guard passing by, but they're not stopping/staying and they won't pick you up. After a day you were really thirsty. After three days you are really hungry. The baby, the little kids, and the old folks are doing a lot worse. There's dead bodies laying around, it stinks of sewage and feces, and its either bloody hot or its raining.

What do you do? If you're young, male and strong, maybe you start walking, trying to escape the city on foot. You have no idea how many miles you will walk or wade or swim before you find water, food, shelter - 10? 20? - but you might make it. If you're a woman, are you going to try it? Oh, do you leave the little kids and old folks behind?

Do you need help? I'll bet you do. Did you expect help to come in an hour or a day? Of course not. But it's Friday now. Are you wondering what the heck is going on? Hell yes! Oh, by the way, you've been cut off from news for days, you don't know that there's several hundred thousand refugees and you haven't heard officials saying they've sent X thousand Guardsmen and Y thousand tents. You don't have the "big picture". So, yeah, you're pretty frustrated.

Think before you post, man.

I'm not saying that they don't deserve help. I'm saying help yourself untill help comes and don't waste your time b_itching about the way the government and FEMA misshandled the situation. I think your missing my point.

[Tim Hancock]

Yeah, I guess "someone" should have forced all the dwellers of NO to move to high ground years ago. Or I guess "someone" should have bought every person in NO their own personal airboat in case disaster strikes. Or I guess "someone" should have stationed 1000 helicopters just outside of any potential storm just in case. Or I guess "someone" should have stationed 100,000 troops w/ food and water to sustain people in 3 states for 1 month just outside of a potential storms reach.
Or I guess "someone" should have the power to snap their fingers and instantly locate every single person in need over a 3 state area and instantly transfer them to 5 star hotel or cruise ship. I think "someone" should also mandate that every person w/in 100 miles of any coast needs a full SCUBA outfit in case mother nature floods their homes.

All of the above was directly overlooked by W (Clinton wanted to do all of the above but the evil republicans denied him)

All of the above needs to be ready to set in motion at the drop of a hat and needs to be set up along the entirety of all US coastlines just in case. Why did W let this storm hit? If he really cared about the people, he would wade thru that city and lead and carry those folks at the Superdome out by foot! All other tens of thousands folks thru out the area (like the people on ventilators in hospitals and such) should have been overlooked entirely until every Superdome refugee was safely and comfortably living in a nice Astrodome somewhere (at least until they trash it). Everyone knows that the poorest people deserve the best care, it is the fair way. (that is what we pay taxes for right?)

Wow, this was easy to make up and spew lefty logic, no wonder they do it so often.

[lendaddy]

We were discussing this at my shop today. The very poor there are textbook "welfare families". They have been conditioned for atleast two/three generations that someone will/should care for their needs. I'm not blaming them, it's human condition...I'm just pointing it out.

[artplumber]

Originally posted by jyl
Are you in touch with reality?

Here's reality. You and your family are standing in or maybe on top of what's left of your home. Almost the whole city is underwater, often to your waist or higher. There is no electricity. There is no phone, cellphone, internet. There is no drinking water. If you had a car, it is gone. The roads are underwater anyway. The food, clothes, etc in your home are underwater. The baby's diapers and food are underwater. Your parents' medicines are underwater.

Think before you post, man.

I guess that's why they tell you to have at least 3days worth of supplies on hand, and preferably a week. But of course, since you didn't listen to the mandatory evacuation order, you didn't listen to the other recommended disaster info.

Ditto on the think before you post.

PS You will note that on the third day things are changing in terms of mobilization for transport and necessities?

[techweenie]

Just curious. How do you pick up and carry three days or a week worth of supplies, the irreplaceable things from your life, any infirm relatives, children, etc. and then know where to go when there is no plan in place to inform you?

I think a lot of folks here are imagining every person left in NO is an able-bodied adult.

[mikester]

The folks who stayed behind and had mobility enough to leave bear some responsibility for their plite.

The folks who did not have that mobility to leave however have my deepest sympathies. Which are utterly worthless; The local governments should have (I don't know that they didn't) done their best to ensure an evacuation of those folks.

It looks like a simple evacuation order for a CATAGORY 5! Hurricane was not heeded. I've been through more than a few hurricanes having spent about 5 years in and about the Florida area. I have lived on the panhandle and been through hurricanes there. Anything more than a Cat 2 and you really should get out of dodge and if you're on the coast a Cat 1 means you get batten down the windows and get a hotel way inland. THERE IS NO POINT TO STAYING BEHIND! Hotels in an emergency will take your pets as well shelters. I can't believe how many folks I heard were staying behind because of their damn cats.

We need military help out there; these people simply need someone with a megaphone to boat around and let them know that help IS on the way and that they just need to be patient. Then they need to put some procedures in place to get folks who are stuck some kind of temporary supplies but leave them where they are as long as they are safe.

Well; that's enough of my armchair antics I suppose. 20 years in the boy scouts have taught me one thing; Be prepared. For the last few years I've let that slide. No more; I told the wife last night we're going to make sure that we can survive for a week at least, we'll be able to survive AND defend ourselves.

[mikester]

Originally posted by techweenie
Just curious. How do you pick up and carry three days or a week worth of supplies, the irreplaceable things from your life, any infirm relatives, children, etc. and then know where to go when there is no plan in place to inform you?

I think a lot of folks here are imagining every person left in NO is an able-bodied adult.

The memories and irreplaceable things are frankly expendable in the face of a CAT 5 hurricane. It's a hard thing to walk away from and it's sad day that happens - that's why we keep our pictures and videos backed up on CDs and DVDs. Easy to carry in the size of a big book.


You get prepared before hand. We need to get back to the 50's mentality where everyone has their own bomb shelter (well, the supplies part at least).

ALWAYS store your survival supplies in water tight containers.