The Worst Administration Since Calgulia - Page 2

EdT82SC · 10-20-2005, 08:30 AM

I voted for Badnarik on '04, but he got less then 1% of the vote in Cali, and wasn't even on the ballot in a few states. The Libertarian party will never be competitive unless it sells out to the special interests. That's where the big money is. The Democrats and Republicans sold out long ago, and reap the reward of Coprorate and Union donations.

Jeff Higgins · 10-20-2005, 08:49 AM

Funny how we all rush to the defense of our chosen losers when the "other side" chastises them. Yup; they may be losers, but they are OUR losers. This thread has been refreshing in that it demonstrates that underneath all of that we all recognize the whole genre need help. But what to do?

Supporting third part candidates that are close to your political ideals does nothing more than hurt the major party candidate you would otherwise support. The the other guys' loser gets to win. Witness Perot and Nader.

Term limits have their appeal. That would certainly be a step in the right direction. Unfortunately, we are still forced to choose from the same pool of special interest big money backed candidates. The faces would just rotate more often.

Maybe the key is to remove the big money from the equation. But how?

kach22i · kach22i's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by Jeff Higgins
Maybe the key is to remove the big money from the equation. But how?

One of the Australian guys said that part of politics was different over there. The funding that is.

Burnin' oil · 10-20-2005, 08:58 AM

I vote third party without any concern about "wasting" my vote. Screw them and screw everybody. . .

Ed Bighi · Ed Bighi's Garage

Politics is different in Australia. And in New Zealand the democracy is much more direct. And there are more parties. Sometimes I feel that our founding fathers should have had more faith in a more direct democracy. If they did, then things would have never gotten this way. The good part is that we are having this discussion. We are pissed and we feel cheated. Lately, I find people believing less and less in this two party deal. Something has to happen. I'm going to keep voting anything other than donkey or elephant without a care. I'd rather waste my vote that way. But I'll keep talking, keep raising hell and cursing the system. Maybe if enough of us start sending them to hell loudly, someone will wake up.

widebody911 · widebody911's Garage

Maybe instead of so much hand-wringing on Roe vs Wade, the Supremese need to revisit Buckley vs. Valeo.

techweenie · techweenie's Garage

Bringing it back to the Caligula reference, I suspect this administration will stop short of appointing a horse as senator... but maybe not by much.

Mulhollanddose · 10-20-2005, 09:13 AM

Joeaksa · 10-20-2005, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kach22i
One of the Australian guys said that part of politics was different over there. The funding that is.

In Europe its totally different as well. You donate and the funds are in many cases doled out to everyone. Also the religious donations are done this way. You cannot donate to a specific church, the govt decides which church needs it and it goes there....

A third or fourth party is sure sounding better but it needs to be funded somehow. The sooner that people realize that the two parties we have now are so mired in BS and have to change, the better.

Joe A

Ed Bighi · Ed Bighi's Garage

Sadly Joe, we are the few who can see it that way. While we are here discussing political possibilities, there are a significant number of people out there who don't even know that the Grand Canyon is in our state. Much less how full of crap the two party system is. They don't know, don't care, and don't even have a clue as to how quickly some other industrialized countries are getting it together. Much less how others have had it together for centuries with far better voter satisfaction. All they care is about one stupid issue, whatever it is, and vote in the hopes that the whore he or she selected will take care of the issue.

BlueSkyJaunte · 10-20-2005, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cool_chick
We really need to start looking at the Libertarian platform. Their views are close to conservatism, something that's no longer existant in republicans today.

I voted Libertarian in the last election.

Me and 9000 other Arizonians.

Until the rules are changed to give 3rd parties a real fighting chance, I suspect we diehards are SOL.

bryanthompson · bryanthompson's Garage

Quote:

Until the rules are changed to give 3rd parties a real fighting chance, I suspect we diehards are SOL.

Wasn't that part of the goal of McCain Feingold? Perhaps if the goals and ideas of Libertarians made sense to the majority of Americans, they'd have a fighting chance.

cool_chick · 10-20-2005, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by techweenie

Can an unfunded third party ever get significant votes? No. The rules prevent it. So your only viable option is to work from within the party of your choice. [/B]

Third parties can't even get on the ballot in many places. IMO it's wrong to be set up that way. They should be able to be on the ballot without jumping through hoops.

They can't even get involved in the presidential debates, etc.

cool_chick · 10-20-2005, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Until the rules are changed to give 3rd parties a real fighting chance, I suspect we diehards are SOL.

Quote:

Originally posted by bryanthompson
Wasn't that part of the goal of McCain Feingold? Perhaps if the goals and ideas of Libertarians made sense to the majority of Americans, they'd have a fighting chance.

Oops, someone else already said this......my bad.

legion · 10-20-2005, 09:46 AM

I don't think a third-party vote is a wasted vote. What would happen if everyone "wasted" their vote?

The only chance the Libertarian party has is some insane wealthy benefactor like George Soros.

Ed Bighi · Ed Bighi's Garage

All parties should be on the ballot. But who is going to change the rules? Your congressman? Would be nice for us citizens to be able to petition for referendums to change these rules. It would make things a heck of o lot easier than whine like idiots to our congressmen in the futile expectation that someday our concerns will be looked at. But this is all part of politics by proxy. It's a republic, they say. Thanks for reminding me, I say. Remind me about triple taxation while you are at it. Too bad our founding fathers trusted future politicians more than the people.

Ed Bighi · Ed Bighi's Garage

Quote:

Originally posted by legion
I don't think a third-party vote is a wasted vote. What would happen if everyone "wasted" their vote?

The only chance the Libertarian party has is some insane wealthy benefactor like George Soros.

In a perfect world, maybe something else could happen. A fiscal conservative masquerading as your classic Robin Hoodlum democrat runs for president and wins. Then he switches to a social liberal and fiscal conservative while in office. Or a rabidly secular republican pretending to consult the lord on everything runs and wins. Then, of course, he changes into a laissez-faire, objectivist capitalist who lives and lets live so long as government lays their hands off our wallets. But it's wishful thinking.

deathpunk dan · 10-20-2005, 09:57 AM

I love it when people talk about 'the ideals of most americans'.

Please.

*Most* people are content to read ****ing People Magazine, hit the mall, live in a mcmansion, eat at TGI Fridays, drive an SUV and hope to get in 18 holes once a week.

Regardless of what side you are on, there are only a handful of us who care about civics beyond personal identity politics.

There are only a handful of us who READ anything other than magazines or spy/war/dan brown/chic lit books, for chrissakes.

There are only a handful of us who give 2 ****s about what we eat and how we take care of our bodies.

There are staggeringly few of us who care at all about anyone other than ourselves.

I don't think the average joe has very well formed opinions on ANYTHING.

Ed Bighi · Ed Bighi's Garage

Dan, unfortunately you are quite correct. And our elected officials know this all to well. They milk it for all they can. Sadly, our country has become McDonald's. Not the best, but it outsells everyone. Even though there are better burger joints, people choose McDonald's. It's the easy choice. It's the one they are familiar with. The most famous one. The less educated or younger a person is, the more that person is interested in consumption there. The customer is too stupid, does not care, or is too scared to ask what is really in the food. They will keep going and swallowing because it's all designed to taste good. Even though in the end, it isn't good. In the back of your mind you know something doesn't jive, but you eat it anyway. The less educated you are, the more you consume there, the more you enjoy, and the less you ask. And just like McDonald's, this place has become a far cry from what the original place was back in the day.

Joeaksa · 10-20-2005, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by cool_chick
Third parties can't even get on the ballot in many places. IMO it's wrong to be set up that way. They should be able to be on the ballot without jumping through hoops.

They can't even get involved in the presidential debates, etc.

Agree with this within reason. There are cases where they allow everyone on the ballot and you end up with 50-100 people there, which confuses some voters.

Look at the recent recall election in Cali where there were candidates from a stripper to a midget, and very few of them were doing it for much more than publicity.

JoeA