The Worst Administration Since Calgulia

[Joeaksa]

Originally posted by deathpunk dan
I love it when people talk about 'the ideals of most americans'.

Please.

*Most* people are content to read ****ing People Magazine, hit the mall, live in a mcmansion, eat at TGI Fridays, drive an SUV and hope to get in 18 holes once a week.

Regardless of what side you are on, there are only a handful of us who care about civics beyond personal identity politics.

There are only a handful of us who READ anything other than magazines or spy/war/dan brown/chic lit books, for chrissakes.

There are only a handful of us who give 2 ****s about what we eat and how we take care of our bodies.

There are staggeringly few of us who care at all about anyone other than ourselves.

I don't think the average joe has very well formed opinions on ANYTHING.

Yep, and they are multipying a lot faster than the other group is, so we are being overrun by this group.

How to fix it? Very good question...

JoeA

[gaijindabe]

Oh joy - you fellows sure have the knickers in a twist...

First of all the third pary system has been treating us fairly well for over two hundred years. With a few changes..

On the national level what we do need is a movement to undo gerrymandering and do away with so many "safe" congressional districts. So many congressmen are so secure - they can do what they like, including selling out to the highest bidder. We need some more good old competition. THAT would improve things.

[bryanthompson]

Competition is good for everything, but how do you bring real competition into a system where success is punished? When you get things done, you're totally beat up on, meanwhile if you do nothing but watch polls and appease as many as possible, you're held up as a success. You'd have to be partially insane to get into it in the first place.

[Superman]

Nostatic's 'revolution' thread is still reverberating in my mind, and this is the same topic. I suspect that tech is right, that change has to be worked through existing parties. My personal belief is that there are two big changes that could have a profound effect on public policy making here:

Campaign Finance Reform

Information Distribution

[Rikao4]

Dan seems to be on the money,but it doesn't change,same *****,just different year, cynical..maybe..Sadly , most americans gave up on the goverment a long time ago. Joe has the right idea to work at improving the system...but if something works or is good...we know it to be offense to some snaildarter species somewhere....so it's back to the same sh8t..had some visitors from Europe this past week...his comment...you americans are your own worst enemy....don't worry about being attacked from the outside (like we have a border)..your elected officials are doing a great job for you.
Rika

[gaijindabe]

Originally posted by Superman
My personal belief is that there are two big changes that could have a profound effect on public policy making here:

Campaign Finance Reform

Information Distribution

Oh that pesky freedom of speech!

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by Ed Bighi
there are a significant number of people out there who don't even know that the Grand Canyon is in our state.

The Grand Canyon doesn't go through Arizona...that is just crazy talk.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by bryanthompson
Perhaps if the goals and ideas of Libertarians made sense to the majority of Americans, they'd have a fighting chance.

The libertarian's problem is their platform is all over the map...they sound schizophrenic. Further, the third parties have no established intellectual resources, military leadership or foreign policy experience.

We need to keep what we have, the best in the world, and change it from within...It is the Democrat constituencies' job to clean up their corrupt party, and the same is true of the Republicans...The Founding Fathers had it right, and this is what the philosophical underpinning of the Conservative movement is, our best way to effect strict constructionism is within the Republican party.

In order for any "third party" to succeed they will, out of pure pressure, be pushed to the middle and be nearly indistinuishable from the other two...If a third party does succeed in quilting together a cohesive platform they will need to rely on existing extra-third-party intellectual muscle.

[legion]

Originally posted by Mulhollanddose
[B]The libertarian's problem is their platform is all over the map...they sound schizophrenic.[B]

Viewed through the eyes of either political party, that is true. However, the platforms of both parties have largely been constructed out of convenience and political necessity.

The Libertarian platform has been constructed by applying a "pure" political doctrine to each situation. Namely, Libertarians believe that the government should be out of people's lives except where absolutely necessary. When applied to various situations, it comes out looking scatterbrained. Let's look at two issues: taxation and drugs. Now apply the Libertarian doctrine to each. Libertarians support very low taxation because it minimizes government involvement in people's lives, and with less money, the government has less of an ability to interfere. Libertarians support the legalization of many drugs currently considered illegal. It is not that they support the use of these drugs, but by actively trying to keep the drugs unavailable, the government is intruding into the lives of individuals.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by Ed Bighi
Their core beliefs are right in line with what most classic liberals throughout the world believe in.

That is scary...Most of these worldwide liberals vote for socialism, largess from the public trough, larger and larger government that controls every aspect of ones life...The only things they except are prostitution and drugs, which would have to be heavily regulated, taxed and at times subsidized.

Libertarians are all over the map, from legalizing prostitution and drugs and raising revenues from it, to the other spectrum of smaller government...Either you are for smaller government with less regulation and taxation, or you are not.

There is nothing "classically liberal" about modern liberalism.

[Mulhollanddose]

As long as there are socialists there will be a prostitution of libertarianism...Libertarians will fight for personal freedoms and liberals will capitalize on social ills, social ills like prostitution and drug-addiction, which will eventuate the polar opposite of a libertarian construct, and that is dependency and welfare.

[widebody911]

and hope to get in 18 holes once a week.
I'm happy if I can manage to get into one hole a week...

[widebody911]

Mul, you should change your screen name to "Turing"

[jyl]

Not "Tourette"?

[Mulhollanddose]

"Et tu Brute..." [exeunt stage right]

[widebody911]

Originally posted by jyl
Not "Tourette"?

I think Mul is really a computer program that we're supposed to think is human, whose task is to auto-respond to anything that contravenes the NeoCon platform. A combination of whack-a-mole and speed dial, if you will. Like a poorly-maintained vending machine, every now and then it malfunctions and lets out too much bile at once, as evidenced by his two recent Libertarian/prostitution posts.

[jyl]

Originally posted by widebody911
I think Mul is really a computer program that we're supposed to think is human, whose task is to auto-respond to anything that contravenes the NeoCon platform. A combination of whack-a-mole and speed dial, if you will. Like a wayward vending machine, every now and then it malfunctions and lets out too much bile at once, as evidenced by his two recent Libertarian/prostitution posts.

But see this description of Tourette's:

Tourette Syndrome (TS) is a neurological disorder characterized by tics -- involuntary, rapid, sudden movements or vocalizations that occur repeatedly in the same way. Diagnostic criteria include:

Both multiple motor and one or more vocal tics present at some time, although not necessarily simultaneously;

The occurrence of tics many times a day (usually in bouts) nearly every day or intermittently throughout the span of more than one year;

Periodic changes in the number, frequency, type and location of the tics, and in the waxing and waning of their severity.

Symptoms can sometimes disappear for weeks or months at a time;

Onset before the age of 18.

In this unusual case, vocalization occurs through the Internet and tics include ideological diatribes as well as short tics like "facts-is-facts" and "I school'd ya".

Yrs trly,

Sigmund Brutus

[Wrecked944]

Originally posted by Superman
Nostatic's 'revolution' thread is still reverberating in my mind, and this is the same topic.

Same here. And as I said in that thread, I think politics is a dead end. I wish it were not so but it is. Better to solve problems outside the political system - like Joe Kennedy's oil company. Cynical people claim Joe left politics to avoid impending scandals. I think he left politics to get things done.

For example, put together a group of intelligent, well-educated and successful people (hmmm...where would you find people like that?), pick a problem they can agree on and combine their resources to solve it. Nostatic? Any interest in organizing such a thing?

Can't be certain I will ever succeed with that strategy, but I am certain someday I will try.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

I'm surprised I haven't responded to this thread yet.

[Mulhollanddose]

Originally posted by widebody911
I think Mul is really a computer program that we're supposed to think is human, whose task is to auto-respond to anything that contravenes the NeoCon platform. A combination of whack-a-mole and speed dial, if you will. Like a poorly-maintained vending machine, every now and then it malfunctions and lets out too much bile at once, as evidenced by his two recent Libertarian/prostitution posts.

No, Thom, just an old punk rocker who doesn't trust the government and has decided to exhaustively educate himself to make sure that I am not unwittingly arguing in favor of "the man."

Just an American Indian/Russian/Norwegian/Pollock/Irish/French/German who loves his country.