So tell me about handguns......

onewhippedpuppy · 12-26-2005, 01:39 PM

Recent threads have really gotten this bouncing around my head, I'd really like to get a handgun in the near future. The purpose will be home defense (fire extinguisher), and something that I can take to a range periodically for the fun of it. So, I need something that's affordable to purchase and shoot, and also simple and reliable.

Give me some opinions, and let me know how much it will cost to buy and shoot, because I'm a total dumbass when it comes to this stuff. No specific preferences, but I do want a semi-auto with a clip, as opposed to a revolver. Caliber would be whatever is best for my use, obviously I don't need a .50 cal Desert Eagle, I don't often find the need to shoot holes in engine blocks.

Thanks!

Seahawk · 12-26-2005, 02:16 PM

You will get twice the opinions and three times the options you ever wanted in about 40 minutes...all in good faith and with the right intentions.

I matriculated from the Ruger 22, to the Browning Hi-power to the Kimber .45 without too much angnst: requirements changed, so did my guns.
My recommendation is to borrow/lease and just go shoot. Once you are comfortable with guns, get the best professional advice you can on which weapon is best for your needs.

I can tell you that nothing beats 22LR for practise.

Enjoy.

speeder · 12-26-2005, 02:18 PM

Good advice right off the bat!

chuckw951 · 12-26-2005, 02:18 PM

Check this thread:
Anyone suggest a handgun?

*********

I have .357 Rossi. I bought it after our old house was burglarized and they stole our .38. I like revolvers. Very simple, very easy. Wife understands how it operates.

The new gun resides in one of these (and it is bolted down):

Hopefully I'll never have to get it out of the box. When we built our new house we installed a security system and lots of outdoor lights. If they want to get in the house, they will. I figure the alarm will give me 10 seconds to get the gun out of the box.

I think a second option might be a 20 gauge pump shotgun. Just for fun if I bought one it would be chrome finish with the pistol grip. Of course one of those doesn't fit in the lockbox.

I paid about $400 for it new. I have it loaded with .38 rounds, .357 bullets are bit much.

red-beard · red-beard's Garage

Home Defense: Shotgun

Target shooting: 22 Browning and Browning High Power. My High Power is actualy a FN, but that isn't much difference.

HardDrive · 12-26-2005, 03:20 PM

I just bought a Sig 226R in .40. Very pleased. Fun to shoot, more than enough for home defense.

Flatbutt1 · 12-26-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by red-beard
Home Defense: Shotgun

Target shooting: 22 Browning and Browning High Power. My High Power is actualy a FN, but that isn't much difference.

.22 for practice is what I do for cost effectiveness.

But I must respectfullly disagree with the shotgun for home defense unless you have a case to use it outside. it takes too long to get that long barrel into position. And especially if you're IN the house. I prefer a handgun for IN the house.

Jeff Higgins · 12-26-2005, 03:38 PM

I'll re-iterate my advice from the other thread refered to above: Buy a revolver. As a first gun, especially for some one new to guns, the simplicity cannot be beat. Your ability to operate whatever you choose, under a great deal of stress and maybe in the dark, is paramount. Unless you are an enthusiastic hobby level shooter, or some one that handles firearms a lot, an automatic can prove to be unworkable when you are threatened and very scared. Even profesionals such as police officers have found this to be true, especially in departments that tend to under-fund firearms training.

Don't get me wrong; I love automatics and own several. I shoot an awful lot - probably to excess in most folk's view - and find myself comfortable with just about any firearm you can put in front of me. I own far more of them than my wife even suspects (my sons have at least a fuzzy idea...) and can load up just about anything you can name for home defense. What do I choose, based upon a lifetime of familiarity, coupled with the luxury of choosing whatever I want from my collection? Revolvers. Simply put, if ever my family is on the line, I want myself or any one of them to be able to pick it up and make it go "bang" with no fuss or confusion. To me, that is the bottom line.

speeder · 12-26-2005, 03:46 PM

Not disagreeing w/ you, Jeff, but my Glock 23 w/ a round chambered in the night stand drawer is ready to go bang w/o any muss or fuss. And I trust it, (not to malfunction) as much as any firearm out there. Put it this way, if a Glock misfires, it was my time to go.

Shuie · 12-26-2005, 04:02 PM

We all know what opinions are like so you probably wont get a a clear and consistent recommendation anywhere for what is 'best'. Rent as many as possible, narrow it down to two or three, and then check back in with us for opinions on those. After youve armed yourself with as much info as possible, pick the one that will work best for what you need. Or, just buy them all

onewhippedpuppy · 12-26-2005, 04:05 PM

Jeff, your advice is interesting, I guess I assumed that an automatic would be simpler. Where would I be able to try a variety of guns, I don't really know anybody to borrow from.

As for a shotgun, I agree that in some ways it may be superior, but it's a bit hard to put in a lockbox under the bed.

Also, could you guys give me some perspective as far as cost on some of these? I don't really know what decent handgun goes for, or what it costs to fire a few through it at a range. I'd just like a few options to look for when the time comes, a good overall compromise on what I want that won't cost me a fortune. Maybe at a later time I could get a .22 for practice, others for some variety, etc.

HardDrive · 12-26-2005, 04:10 PM

Glad to see it took all of 5 minutes for this to turn into a 'best gun for home defense' debate

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

I think the ideal is to find a range that will let you rent/try guns and has a good selection. But first find a good class and take that. Then find a gun that "fits"...your hand, your intentions, you vibe...whatever.

My process was class, then range time renting, then buy something that "spoke" to me (Sig p226 in 9mm), then a second one for friends to use (p225 - slightly smaller gun). My next one will be a Sig Mosquito in .22LR. The reason for that is that it has the same controls as my other Sigs (I only need to know how to field strip one type of gun), similar balance/feel as my 9mm, and .22LR is dirt cheap to shoot.

But I suspect I'm like Jeff. I'm at the range a fair amount. I like revolvers too and at some point will get a S&W 619 just because. But he is right about time "in the seat" being important feeling comfortable. After a couple thousand rounds I can't believe how much more competent I feel handling a semi-auto (at least a Sig). There is no substitute for practice...

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Matt, today's autos are pretty simple and every bit as reliable as the old revolvers. There was a time when revolvers were more reliable, but those days are gone. I'm a huge SIG Sauer fan, just bought my 4th one. I like a lot of other types too, but I don't think anything out there is more reliable than a well-maintained SIG with factory ammo. I shoot all kinds of cheapskate and even some homemade ammo at the range wth varying results. But when I carry or keep by the bed for home defense, I buy the good factory-made hollow points.

I think you would be wise to sign up for one of those 1 day NRA-certified courses and also have some friends take you to the range. I wouldn't trust my life or home to a gun for less than $500 unless you really know what you're doing. Buy a cert. pre-owned or be prepared to spend at least $800 to get started. Then you'll want night sights, extra mags and the snowball effect begins. I go to the NRA range once a week and go through about $40 worth of ammo each time.

onewhippedpuppy · 12-26-2005, 05:13 PM

So typically there's ranges that have different guns available to rent?

They have certified pre-owned guns?! That's cool, but weird, I never would have guessed that.

I've noticed that there's lots of goodies you can buy, I'm not sure if I can afford a German car and a gun at the same time.

Rick Lee · Rick Lee's Garage

Matt, most police departments use SIG's or Glocks, so every few yrs. they turn them in for new ones from the factory. The factory goes over them and "certifies" them, also with a warranty. Since most cops never take their guns out of their holsters, you can find some almost new guns for around half the original purchase price with the CPO deal. I guess renting is the way to go if you don't know anyone who can take you to the range to show you their guns. You must know someone who can take you. It's also important to be fanatical about safety and gun etiquette when at the range, which a friend can show you.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

http://www.ordnanceoutsellers.com

http://www.ordnanceoutsellers.com/page1.htm

James is a great guy.

onewhippedpuppy · 12-26-2005, 05:46 PM

That's not bad for the CPO ones, I had hoped for under $500, thanks for the link. What is involved with buying a gun online?

Is a 9mm the cheapest from an ammo standpoint?

Rick, I'll have to ask around our local BMW club. I've only lived in Wichita for a year, and spent most of it with my head in a book, so I haven't met all that many people. Maybe one of my fellow AE students is a shooter. You meant that it would be ideal for me to have somebody take me, not required, right? The NRA website doesn't have any listings for lessons here, but I could probably find something through a range on a local level.

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

find a local FFL (probably a gun shop). Talk to James at OO. Send him money, he gets money, sends gun to your local FFL (they might have to fax him a copy of their license). Your local FFL gets the gun, you do any paperwork and pay whatever fees, and you have your gun.

9mm is cheapest other than .22LR. The nice thing about 9mm is you can get bulk reload FMJ pretty cheap, and good JHP defense rounds for "real."

There are myriad "stopping power" arguments out there. I've read a lot of them along with the primary literature. Bottom line is that the odds of you being involved in a shoot out are next to nil. But for that infintesimal chance, if you have practiced and can acquire/hit a target, it won't matter if it is 9mm or .45. Placement counts.

jyl · jyl's Garage

I've been thinking about whether semi-autos or revolvers are more reliable.

By "reliable" in a home defense situation it seems you need both (a) the gun goes bang every time you work the bang control, and (b) you will remember how to and be able to work that bang control in the dark, when you're terrified, heart pounding, adrenalin surging (and, if applicable, that your spouse will also be able to).

Thinking about that, I don't think semi-autos are as reliable as the traditional double-action (DA) revolver.

Reliability part (a) - even the most dependable semi-autos do malfunction, even if it is very rare and often caused by shooter error (a limp grip, obstructing the slide, thumb bumping the slide lock, really inappropriate ammo, etc). I have perhaps the most reliable semi-auto out there, a box-stock Glock 19, and it has malfunctioned. Okay, only about 5 times in 14 years, but that's not zero times. I don't own a DA revolver, but I do own a single-action revolver, and it has never malfunctioned in nearly 20 years. And the consequences of a malfunction are different. If a semi-auto fails to fire, you have to tap the magazine, cycle the slide, etc. if a DA revolver fails to fire, you simply pull the trigger again.

Reliability part (b) - most semi-autos have multiple buttons and levers (slide lock, decocker or safety, magazine release) and can be in various different "conditions" (completely unloaded, loaded magazine empty chamber, loaded magazine loaded chamber hammer down, loaded magazine loaded chamber hammer cocked, etc). Even the simplest semi-auto (again, my Glock) still has two controls besides the trigger and four conditions. I've used my Glock long enough that I think I could operate it in darkness and terror. But a double-action revolver has only the trigger and the cylinder catch, and it is either loaded or unloaded. It is really simple.

Now, as a practical matter, I have guns primarily because I enjoy shooting them at the range, I like precision mechanical devices, and maybe someday the SF Bay Area will turn into a post-Katrina New Orleans. So I didn't choose my guns for "home defense", though I think the Glock would be fine. And thus I don't own a DA revolver.