If not filter them out, at least teach them that its not a toy maybe? Or maybe that a loaded gun points downrange no matter what.

When this was announced here, thats all I could think of.

I'd be willing to bet the guys your worried about that you see at the range DO NOT have CCW permits.

Anyone can shoot at a public range, heck they don't even have to bring their own gun...they'll rent one to you if you want.

What your seeing at your local public range is the lowest common denominator.

Hey didn't I see you at the range last week:D
And I know your not talking about me cause I got my permit, just ask my girlfriend she'll back me up/defend me.

Yes, well...Wheels does look like she could hand out a world class ass-kicking... :D

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1143844327.jpg

But a turn of a wheel on a crowded street is similar to the knife in my post. A movement of a finger the effort it takes for me to flick a cigarette and the momentum of a ton of steel movement from a turn of the wheel are quite different. :)


I don't recall your question involving CCW laws, and thus the answer was not with regard to the law. You asked why people fear guns, and I provided an answer. Thus, your explanation above is does not relate to my statements. If you had asked "why do people fear guns who get CCW permits, my answer would've been quite different.

The whole thread is about CCW, Cool...

Open carry would be nice, IMHO, but on the same coin, why don't people have placards on their cars showing their driving records? I bet you'd avoid the people with multiple Reckless Driving and DUIs on their record! Such people would also probably end up being discriminated against.

Point being, open carry would really scare too many people. Think about all the soccer mommies out there with the touchy feely 'guns are bad PERIOD' mindset. I walk into a store with my .45 on my hip, then out comes running Mrs Soccormommy screaming HE'S GOT A GUN!!! It causes a scene, likely has me having to talk to a police officer, causes an interruption of the store's business, interrupts other people going about their business...

Concealed, none of the above happens. Under the CHL provisions in Texas, I would be required to completely conceal my handgun such that a reasonable person under casual observation would not be able to detect I'm carrying it. Otherwise, I'd have committed a crime. If my handgun were visible, I'd be charged with brandishing a firearm.

CC, the argument about a gun being uber-easy to cause death as compared to a knife or blunt object really doesn't hold much water. You have to realize just how EASY it is to kill a human. It doesn't take much effort at all to plunge a blade into someone's gut, or to cause fatal damage to someone's skull with a golf club. We really are fragile beings.

On that point, if a criminal has a knife and threatens me, why should I not be able to more easily STOP him? Should I be required to have to put as much physical effort into defending myself as my attacker would have put into attacking me?

Demonstrations have shown that a man weilding a knife up to 23 feet away from a man with a holstered gun can close that distance and kill the man before he can draw his weapon and fire in self defense. Having a gun doesn't automatically trump every lesser weapon. It's a last resort.

Self defense has to happen in many ways. Situational awareness, avoidance, deterrance, deescalation and evasion - should all occur BEFORE a weapon is drawn.

Actually, Matt, Killing someone with a Handgun is difficult. 2/3rd's of people shot with handguns, survive. With Proper medical treatment, even more would survive.

Red, yeah, I thought of that afterward... gunshots are very surviveable, if treated quickly and properly.

Of course, shot placement is critical... which comes to another point.

Handguns are actually not very easy to be accurate with. Despite what is seen on TV and in movies, it's actually somewhat difficult to hit a target where you want to hit a target more than a few feet away.

CC,

Do you want to step in and explain to Slak that "name calling" was not needed and that doing it is just trying to start a fight? Or was it just when you felt I did it and these rules do not apply when Kyle does it.

Oh yea, no one seems to know what "pole-smoke" is. I have received over 20 emails directly about this thread and no one has the slightest idea what it is. Can you please enlighten all of us on the thread?

Nice that Slak has finally realized that people with a CCW are safer than those carrying a weapon illegally. At least we are making some progress.

I did an IDPA shoot a few mos. ago and you'd be amazed by how many of us missed a torso-sized target 4 ft. away from us. When you're under pressure, drawing from your holster and pulling on the double-action first shot, it's a whole different ballgame. I can do 2" groups at 25' all day long. But when it comes to drawing with a timer next to your ear, you realize what cops have to deal with and how unrealistic any gun scene in the movies is.

Rick, that's why I use my CZ75B... I can carry Condition One... IDPA is easy without that first double action trigger pull.

And you're right... It is more difficult. I sucked the first couple matches I shot in, but have gotten better. You start out all excited and stressed, but you do eventually calm down a bit and are able to think a little more clearly.

One thing I'm glad I was able to accomplish quickly, as evidenced by some pictures from a match I shot a couple years ago, was taking my finger off of the trigger when moving. I've also learned better and smoother ways of drawing from the holster.

Anyway, IDPA is some good fun! I need to get my duff out and shoot some matches soon!

Matt, let me know when you're going next and I'll join you.

James

Yep, exactly the opposite of rifle and shotgun injuries.

I've recorded such a thing on video, my pastor is a big gun lover, and he was disscussing the minimal range you where allowed to draw at, and that it wasn't enough. He paced it off, and told his nephew to pretend to draw a gun, and shoot him.(He had none on him). He was in such shock when the white haired Pastor charged him screaming at the top of his one working lung, that he was nailed in the stomach by the "air knife" before he could even do anything.

Gun ownership to me, is not 100% about self defence, but to me, its a basic principle laid down as a concern of the people that the government should not be able to take away. So also, with our freedom of speech, the press, religion, from unnecesary searches, etc. If you erode one, you weak the others. Our right have been chiseled away from almost the begginning, to the point we are at now. If today, you let one down, you help in the future, for the others to fall as well. If the people had of stood up for the 2nd ammendment in the past, I beleive that many of the laws today that invade our privacy, would not be there.

Very well said, I agree.

Here's another philosophical look at this idea. It's titled A nation of Cowards - Essays on the Ethics of Gun Control by Jeff Snyder. I've read it several times, getting more from it each time.

And I thought everyone at the LV Pelican Meet was packing. Certainly most were. CC looked pretty dangerous to me....and was obviously packing some dangerous weapons.

While I do not feel any safer than I did a week ago. After reading all the posts here and reading some other web sites like packing.org and what not. I see no reason feel any less safe than I did a week ago either. The class does not seem like a joke and I am going to guess that the "punks" do not have the attention span to get through it anyways.

IMO I would still prefer open carry, but CCW does not seem like such a bad idea anymore either.

I plan on singing up for the class and getting the permit. However, I doubt that I will ever actually feel the need to carry here in my area because there is almost zero crime here.

It will give me an excuse to go buy a new pistol though. Hmmmmm maybe one of those Baby Desert Eagle's or a wheel gun or something. And maybe a .32 or the like for CC.

20 emails about this thread? Give me a break man.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/ does not have a thesaurus otherwise you could find the meaning there.

yep

take it easy

So why didn't you direct your question towards same?