Maybe that Amigos five blocks from my house will stop getting robbed now.

True. Life is full of risks. Ever drive a car? You risk your life more every time you get on the freeway than you'd ever risk being shot by a CCW holder.

When the legal ramifications of shooting are rammed down your throat like they are in CCW classes, you'd likely not fire unless you were absolutely sure you were justified. If a gang of punks were wailing on me with baseball bats and Joe CHL was near and could save my life, I hope he would be able to.

Basically, 'acting in defense of a third party/person' would only be justified if a reasonable person would believe that third person were in grave danger of life and limb. If two guys were duking it out and it looked like a 'fair fight', then being justified in shooting either person wouldn't likely hold up in court. Some nutbag with a lead pipe chasing a bloodied up woman across a parking lot leaves a little less doubt, though.

Shoot/don't shoot is judgement, and is weighed against what a 'reasonable person' would believe. Vigilatism is not encouraged, but then letting an innocent person die when you could do something about it is kinda bad for the soul, too, isn't it?

"Attend a 10-15 hour training course; lecture and firearms proficiency demonstration by approved DPS instructor"

The class goes over the laws of Texas including where you can and cannot carry. It also goes over the laws concerning use of deadly force and when and when you cannot use. After passing the course, you must pass a firearm test. You have to show you can shoot straight with the weapon type you plan to carry.

You have to be a US Citizen or a Permanent Resident Alien.

You cannot have committed any felony and cannot have committed any violent misdemeanors. You will have a full FBI check including fingerprinting, to make sure you are clean in the entire United States. You cannot be late on child support payments or in arrears on you taxes! If, while you are a CHL holder, you are indicted for any crime, your license is suspended.

The people who apply for and get CHLs are some of the most law-abiding people around. They are not going to do things that will jeopardize keeping the license.

You have had people sitting within 10 feet of you, carrying a guy and not known it.

Where was this joe?

When did this happen?

When VA's shall-issue law went into effect (thanks to Ollie North being denied his renewal), the police stations ran out of applications. This was before the Internet and it was a pretty unorganized thing then. But the rush by tens of thousands of people in the very first days of the law demonstrated that people wanted this freedom restored. At the time the law said the police could charge $50 for the background check. They took that to mean $50 for the local police, $50 for the state, $50 for the feds and then it was $150. Out then Atty. Gen. James Gilmore, later governor, threatened to throw all the Commonwealth Attorneys in jail unless they refunded every penny above $50. I actually got a refund check from Arlington Co. for something like $100. I was stunned. VA's CCW law has been a smashing success. I'm on my 3rd or 4th renewal.

We always had open carry. When you go to a gun show, they put a zip tie through your barrel and chamber to show the gun is unloaded. I once walked out of a gun show and no more than 15 ft. from a group of state troopers on a smoke break, cut my zip tie off, inserted a magazine, racked the slide back, decocked and put it back in my holster while they all watched me, nodded in approval I went on my way. I love VA!!!!!

What's with all the paranoia Slak? Research the numbers in states where CCWlaws exist. You have legitimate things to be afraid of in life, this isn't one of them.....the numbers don't lie.

Why do I need a printing press to print anti-slavery leaflets?

Why do I need a writ of habeas Corpus?

Why do I need a right to remain silent?

The answer is, of course, because rights are personal property, I own my rights, and my right to self defense, with any tool, is mine and mine alone.

It is not subject to your arguments of social utility. How dare you even think, for one scintilla of a second, that it is.

And I have a right to reasonable personal safety.

If you will not wear it on the outside. Keep the hell away from me.

Why?

Because I do not trust that you even know how to operate a pistol.

And I get to trust that you know how to operate a car?

Actually, you do NOT have a right to personal safety and the police have ZERO obligation to protect you, which is all the more reason you should support CCW. It keeps you safer. I can't believe all the evidence on this thread has made no impression on you.

No, you have the right to defend yourself, there is no assertable right to safety.

Quote:

If you will not wear it on the outside. Keep the hell away from me.

Whether I am armed or not is none of your business, except in your own home.

Quote:

Why? Because I do not trust that you even know how to operate a pistol.

Again, that is none of your business. I own the right to self defense, and I yield it to no one willingly.

Yes I should.

I have the expectation that your pistol is not going to malfunction and just go off. Shooting the guy standing behind you at the starbucks.

Statistically the cops shoot the wrong person five times more often than a citizen does.

I give you that infomation for your edification. Access to the right to self defense is not dependent on such arguments.

Pat

If you are putting me in harms way, it is my business.

No, you do not have the right to such an expectation any more than you have the right to an expectation that everyone operating a motor vehicle has brakes that will never malfunction.

If it could be proven statistically to you that you are more likely to have your life saved by a CW carrying citizen that taken by one, would it change your mind?

If some dudes CCW malfunctions and shoots a family member of mine. God help me. I will kill him.

Maybe, but not right now.

Right now I am so pissed, I want to go fist to fist with Gov. Heineman. Beat the **** out of his sorry ass.

And I'm spent.......

Well I feel safer knowing that you will not be applying for a cc permit. :rolleyes:

Seriously, Kyle, give this a little more thought and try to come up with some at least halfway reasonable conclusions.