and who did you call today?

[Jeff Higgins]

They monitor e-mails, chat room, and discussion boards like this as well. Not that they can possibly keep up with every communication made in every conceivable form, so they monitor key words and phrases. Just send a few key words all together, like "White House", "bomb", "President Bush", "assasinate", etc. and sit back and see how long it takes them to come and bfsagdfyulbvalyfgablguyt ...

[Nathans_Dad]

Nostatic, last I heard they were simply datamining.

Are you confusing the NSA Eavesdropping program which is with calls outside of the US with the datamining of calling patterns? No listening in is done on these calls according to the White House.

Or are you pre-supposing that the other shoe hasn't yet dropped and that the NSA is secretly listening to all those domestic calls too??

[nostatic]

Originally posted by lendaddy
It depends

exactly...like if they get a warrant. Sorta like getting domestic call lists from phone providers...seems you used to have to go to court to get those instead of just getting them without any probable cause.

Rick, I'm not confusing the two. The article doesn't state that they are eavesdropping, but even obtaining the call lists from providers is rather chilling to me. I just asked the question to see how willing people are to have their own affairs monitored by the gov. Where does the slippery slope end?

Jeff, chat rooms and discussion boards are public communication. I don't see an issue with monitoring those as I don't have an expectation of privacy. Don't phone calls fall under a different rubric? Isn't there an expectation of privacy for a phone call? Seems that when the argument about emails was fast a furious a few years back, phone calls were the gold standard for private communication.

[stevepaa]

Originally posted by Nathans_Dad
Nostatic, last I heard they were simply datamining.

Pres Bush said they weren't datamining. He is a liar exactly to the same extent as Clinton with his 'no sex' comment. And the neocons just sit there and support this activity now. What a bunch of hypocrites.

God save us all from those willing to give up liberties and freedoms for security.

[1967 R50/2]

Honestly, I don't see what the big deal is here.

There is another big bureaucracy which knows who you call and when: THE PHONE COMPANY.

Which massive bureaucracy knows my calling patterns makes no difference to me. The telemarketers still keep calling, regardless.

[Nathans_Dad]

I haven't made up my mind on this issue yet, Steve, but I think talking about the issue honestly is the first step. The media seems to want to put the NSA Eavesdropping program and this program into one box which I don't think is right. I saw on the news last night where they played a clip of Bush saying that they weren't eavesdropping on domestic calls followed by a clip from yesterday talking about domestic number datamining. They insinuated that Bush was lying the whole time when in fact they are two separate programs and, so far, no evidence of eavesdropping on purely domestic calls without a warrant has been found.

I don't like the idea of the gubmint datamining who I call, but I also don't like the idea of google keeping records of my searches, the IRS knowing what I spent my money on and how much money I made in various endeavors, the US Census Bureau knowing how many people live in my house, what the race of my kids is and how many cars I own. I don't like the internet keeping cookies on websites that I visit and using that data to send annoying pop-ups to my screen. I don't like credit card companies knowing my personal information and spending habits and selling that data to advertisers.

In short, there's a lot of my personal information that is datamined every day and yet I don't see Nancy Pelosi out there railing against those things. If it weren't so transparently political, I might get riled up about this...

[nostatic]

You have to draw lines somewhere. Google has a lot of data, but as for my searches...again, I don't consider anything done on the Internet to be "private." I expect that the credit agencies will keep my information private, as I expect the phone company to do as well. I went on the national no-call list and no longer get any telemarketers. So some bits of the system work. As for the census, that gives data to enable the government to provide public services. Now you could argue that the gov is providing "security" as a service by gathering all of the phone call data, but to me that is over the line. Census data is static. The call data is not.

I don't see this as a political issue. Well, except for the fact that the dems latch on for the wrong reasons (because they want to make a stink) and the repubs turn a blind eye for the wrong reason (they want to support the pres no matter what).

[Rikao4]

seems folks are upset that someone may listen, not to many politicos upset about the 10 million illegals making calls to Mexico and further south.It's like a magic show..last week it was illegals and amnesty..look over here Kennedy is drunk/maybe..look here.. phone logs...meantime..sneakies across the border,Iran has a bomb..CIA run by a soldier ? and so it goes on, and on, and on, and will someone please bring me a beer..this pure entertaiment folks
Rika

[Nathans_Dad]

How can you not see it as a political issue?

Is it merely coincidence that this leak occurred the day that Bush's nomination for CIA Director is making the rounds at Congress? You know, the former director of the NSA?

[nostatic]

at its core it is not a political issue. Or it shouldn't be. But as I said, unfortunately it is.

[Nathans_Dad]

Ok, I agree with that statement, the evaluation of what our government should and should not do and what info they should and should not collect is not a political one, it is an American one.

Unfortunately every issue that comes up gets spun into mudslinging ammo in that cesspool of corruption we call our government.

[stevepaa]

At the core it is about right and wrong and this is wrong.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

So who's Paris Hilton calling for phone sex these days?

[Rikao4]

Oh, and will some someone please send Schubert a Eyemasters coupon..take the glasses of, or put them on..you don't look smart, and when you speak.. pure horsesh@t .
Rika

[nostatic]

Originally posted by SoCal911SC
As Adam Carolla said this morning, "You already can't grow a pot plant in your own house, there's a camera at every intersection, and you have to give half the money you make to the government. Your worried about this??"

not crazy about the other one's either. But do we just sit here with our thumbs up our arses and let them do whatever they want?

Maybe time for some civil disobedience (or not so civil). What do you think the fine is for spraypainting the lenses of intersection cameras?

[john70t]

Not concerned with constitutionally-granted privacy?
Fine, give copies of your house keys to the local police, fire department, phone company, gas company, etc..... with the condition that they can look all they want but don't touch.

-Mabye your taking with your lawyer about confidential issues.
-Mabye your discussing buisness strategies that are competitive with Haliburton or Shell Oil.
-Mabye your talking to your family about medical issues.
-Mabye you information might be sold to private companies.

The only one holding the rope around my nuts should be me.

[Rikao4]

The list of boboos is long, and getting longer. So lets just wait and see what rises up next week, and then this 'outrage ' will take the backseat with the rest of the boboos on the bus. Thinking birdflu in Wyoming could be hot, or American Idol.
Rika

[1967 R50/2]

Originally posted by john70t
Not concerned with constitutionally-granted privacy?

Actually, I don't think the word "Privacy" is mentioned once in the Constitution.

But that is just an aside. Whether the Gov't knows what your doing, or Verizon knows....somebody still knows and it isn't "Private" anymore.

[john70t]

[techweenie]

Originally posted by john70t
Not concerned with constitutionally-granted privacy?
Fine, give copies of your house keys to the local police, fire department, phone company, gas company, etc..... with the condition that they can look all they want but don't touch.

-Mabye your taking with your lawyer about confidential issues.
-Mabye your discussing buisness strategies that are competitive with Haliburton or Shell Oil.
-Mabye your talking to your family about medical issues.
-Mabye you information might be sold to private companies.

The only one holding the rope around my nuts should be me.

True.

Maybe the guy you're talking with is later identified as an unlicensed gun dealer with some fringe political views. You think you won't get a knock on your door?

And once again, people who don't exercise their brain cells feel it's perfectly fine for the Bush administration to have their phone call, retail and library records. They never stop to think who might be in power next.