Today's stupidity courtesy of the Bu$h administration. . .

[Mulhollanddose]

Do you expect consistency from the left?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

I think most people would prefer inconsistent good intentions than consistent evil ones.

Unfortunately those seem to be our choices these days. . .

[Mulhollanddose]

big abortion and the harvesting of humans for body parts comes immediately to mind...consistent evil

[dd74]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
1. The stem cell research veto. What a short-sighted tool. 'nuff said.

2. (continued) intransigence on Israel/Lebanon ("uh. . . well, we don't like what Hizbollah is doing but. . . uh. . . we don't like what Israel is doing either". Bravo. What visionary and decisive statesman-like leadership. . .

3. The dumbass comment to Putin about "engaging in Iraq-style democracy" (even Putin couldn't help cracking a wry smile at our "leader's" overt stupidity on the world stage over that one).

4. (this one takes the cake - just heard it) U.S. citizens being evacuated from Lebanon are being forced to sign IOUs to the U.S. government at the port before being allowed on chartered ships to get them out of the country. They will have 90 days to make restitution to the U.S. government for an as-yet undisclosed amount (might be $500, might be $50,000 - you just don't know until you get the bill, Jack!)

Yet we're continuing to pay $45+ for a case of Sprite to subsidize Cheney's poor widdle Haliburton buddies.



At what point will people seriously start saying "enough"?

Hopefully it starts with this fall. I'm not a Democrat, but I'm beginning to think more and more that there's some serious merit to their position that "ANYTHING is better than what we have now". Maybe we should just start there and work out the rest later.

Just frustrated with such overt stupidity.

1. I think it was given Bush would veto that bill. His existence is based within the religious right's right-to-life philosophy.

2. I don't know - I wouldn't want to take sides on this one. On one hand, yes, we're Israel's ally. On the other hand, we're trying to appease Muslims within Iraq.

3. Was the mic still on?

4. The fees were waived.

"ANYTHING is better than what we have now". Even Hillary?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

So you're saying the current administration's policies are "inconsistent good intentions" then? Hmm. Well. . . it's a start. Perhaps I'll indulge this particular delusional fantasy in the interest of making progress. . .

Let's see then. . . inconsistencies. . . The reasons/rationalization for the war in Iraq - that was pretty inconsistent. . . The "exit strategy" was inconsistent insofar as it never existed and still doesn't. The handling of Katrina comes to mind. So does the current handling of evacuating U.S. citizens from Lebanon. Many others too. Perhaps you're right. Maybe it IS the (R) that are the inconsistent ones. . .

But "good intentions"? Naaaaaaaaaaah.

Actually, the (R) systematized policies seem to be a lot more consistently evil - "bring as many unwanted people into the world and then exploit the f*ck out of them once they're here".

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Sounds like the fees were only waived after a public uproar over it.

How much you want to bet they still quietly go after the people that signed the IOUs months from now? Wonder what % of evacuees will get some "special attention" from the IRS come next audit season. . .

I trust this government slightly less than the heavyset dude down at the used car dealership wearing the plaid jacket.

[dd74]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
I trust this government slightly less than the heavyset dude down at the used car dealership wearing the plaid jacket.

LOL! I can't argue with that, my friend.

[sammyg2]

Why the heck should the taxpayers have to foot the bill for people who wanted to go to lebanon? I can see it if they are official US business but people went there for vacation and now they want a free trip home?

I got a clue for them, DON'T GO TO LEBANON!
I won't go there because it is unsafe. It's not some big secret. If they want to go somewhere they shouldn't go then they are on thier own!

As for the rest of your foolish statements, no comment. I don't want to encourage you.

[skipdup]

Originally posted by snowman
#4 was passed by a democrat controlled congress. Poleski (sp?) was one of the ones that voted for it. Now she’s against it, cause Bush is president.

This needed repeating. As I understand it, evacuees are to be charged the commercial rate +$1 when the government has to come and save them. It's the law. And, Pelosi vote for it.

Personally, I don't want my tax dollars used to save people that take extremely risky chances. I want them helped, but I also want them to pay for it!

- Skip

[1967 R50/2]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile


3. The dumbass comment to Putin about "engaging in Iraq-style democracy" (even Putin couldn't help cracking a wry smile at our "leader's" overt stupidity on the world stage over that one).

Saw that one on the news and I started laughing even before I heard Vlad's reply. Actually, I think Putin handled it pretty well. A bit of humor never hurts.

Who ever is advising Bush on Russia needs to come up to speed quickly. Past administrations are use to an economically enfeebled Russia that they could influnence with aid. But with oil and natural gas getting more pricey, suddenly Russia "has hand". Pressure from the outside isn't likely to change the way things are being done.

Also, I think Putin looks to China and sees the road not taken....and a better road in his mind. That country is totalitarian...but orderly, yet capitalistic and profitable. Which is the exact opposite of Russia following perestroika. Democratic, but disorderly and impoverished. Clearly he is trying to emulate China, at least in part.

HOWEVER, while I agree that the above are all PR blunders, I do think that Bush is doing well in one area: North Korea. The admins take on the situation has never changed much and with each, new squirrly move that Kim Jong Il makes, it seems to justify the position. I mean in the last week, you've had South Korea tell off the north, and Japan say that they would consider a first strike against NK missle sites. Japan is hardly what one would consider as a bellicose state, so when they make statements like that, it just confirms in my mind that the admin is handling NK correctly....keep him at arms length and treat him like a wacko. Seems other countries concur.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

So it's okay for the U.S. government to spend BILLIONS of dollars protecting U.S. civilians that happen to have the label "contractor" next to their name (who are also in harm's way and "high risk" areas BY CHOICE, I might add) but it's not okay for the U.S. government to spend a few thousand bucks to evacuate some people off in a foreign nation for vacation, business, or possibly even at the behest of the same government (ambassadors, etc.)?

This is exactly the kind of consistency I'd expect from the looney neocon fringe.

I think some people here are (among other things) confusing the entire country of Lebanon with a terrorist camp. The country of Lebanon is largely populated by peaceful people who have no backing from Syria's/Iran's regimes and little interest in politics or even Israel. The problem here isn't Lebanon's people - it is with militant backing from Syria and Iran AND Israel's own actions.

Hell, even Bush the destroyer himself admitted this was the case with regards to IRAQ, which was a far worse and higher risk place, no? If not, why all the deliberate effort to supposedly avoid harming civilians (with questionable success rates, but claims of effort nonetheless)? If you're going to blame the entire country and paint everyone with the same broad brush, why not claim all the Iraqis were Ba'athist sympathizers and all Saudis and Jordanians are up-and-coming terrorists (and all Germans are Nazis, all Chinese are communist propaganda promoters, etc.)

Generalization is a dangerous game. . . Lebanon was not a "high risk" place up until a few days ago. It certainly wasn't on the list of nations prohibited for travel by U.S. citizens (like Cuba).

[masraum]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile

4. (this one takes the cake - just heard it) U.S. citizens being evacuated from Lebanon are being forced to sign IOUs to the U.S. government at the port before being allowed on chartered ships to get them out of the country. They will have 90 days to make restitution to the U.S. government for an as-yet undisclosed amount (might be $500, might be $50,000 - you just don't know until you get the bill, Jack!)

Taken out of context this sounds really bad, but this is from CNN.com. This seems much more reasonable.

After criticism from Congress, the State Department said it dropped plans to ask Americans to pay for their rides on commercial vessels. Earlier, authorities planned to make Americans sign a note pledging to reimburse the U.S. government the price of a commercial flight from Beirut to Cyprus — usually $150-$200.After criticism from Congress, the State Department said it dropped plans to ask Americans to pay for their rides on commercial vessels. Earlier, authorities planned to make Americans sign a note pledging to reimburse the U.S. government the price of a commercial flight from Beirut to Cyprus — usually $150-$200.

[Tobra]

1. On stem cell research, he has stated his position and has not changed it, would it be better for him to change his position daily depending on public opinion polls like a recent Democrat Chief Exec?

2. WTF would you say about the situation over there. Both sides are making boneheaded moves, every day. There is unlikely to be a resolution possible, good or otherwise. Our most recent Chief Exec made things better by shaking Arafat's dick dry after he finished pissing now didn't he?

3. Not familiar with this one, can't comment.

4.The fees(voted in by Democrats) were waived. You are pissed at the current administration for something done by someone else, way to be well informed and appropriately indignant

Big difference between protecting contractors we asked to go into a hazardous area and tourists we told to NOT go somewhere because it is dangerous and the US government can't take responsibility for the safety of citizens who choose to go there despite that fact.

Inconsistent with good intentions, consistent with evil intentions? WTF are you talking about? You are psychic and can look into the hearts of men, know their hopes and dreams? Man, you and the Amazing Kreskin need to hit Vegas

[Joeaksa]

Hugh and Fint hit it on the head. I was in Beirut a month or two ago and its a "sporty" place.

Why anyone would go to Lebanon and be surprised that a war broke out is an idiot but then there are a lot of them in the world and a few of them on this thread.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally posted by Tobra
1. On stem cell research, he has stated his position and has not changed it, would it be better for him to change his position daily depending on public opinion polls like a recent Democrat Chief Exec?

Following public opinion isn't necessarily always a bad thing - particularly in a supposedly "representative" democracy. Bush is a bull-headed idiot on this issue and history will bear it out.

Originally posted by Tobra
2. WTF would you say about the situation over there. Both sides are making boneheaded moves, every day. There is unlikely to be a resolution possible, good or otherwise. Our most recent Chief Exec made things better by shaking Arafat's dick dry after he finished pissing now didn't he?

Even saying what you did (that "both sides are making boneheaded moves") would be better. Blaming Clinton again? How trite. At least there weren't daily suicide bombings and rocket attacks in wake of the "road map" proposal. Maybe you don't like the fact that Arafat was invited to the White House, but the ends justified the means, IMO.

Originally posted by Tobra
3. Not familiar with this one, can't comment.

I'll try to find a link to the story, or someone else can. It exemplifies the laugh-out-loud stupidity of this administration to a tee. It'd have the makings of a hilarious comedy routine/skit if it weren't reality.

Originally posted by Tobra
4.The fees(voted in by Democrats) were waived. You are pissed at the current administration for something done by someone else, way to be well informed and appropriately indignant

Big difference between protecting contractors we asked to go into a hazardous area and tourists we told to NOT go somewhere because it is dangerous and the US government can't take responsibility for the safety of citizens who choose to go there despite that fact.

Inconsistent with good intentions, consistent with evil intentions? WTF are you talking about? You are psychic and can look into the hearts of men, know their hopes and dreams? Man, you and the Amazing Kreskin need to hit Vegas

With the current administration's history of "selective enforcement", they're equally if not more culpable than any lawmakers by selectively choosing to enforce this law.

At least they "reacted to public opinion" and decided to waive the fees, didn't they? Oh wait, did that just shatter your "reality"?

[Superman]

You were in Beirut a month ago, Joe? Would you label yourself an idiot, then? Or perhaps you were there as a non-idiot, but the rest of Americans there are idiots? Maybe you think the difference is that you felt you had a good reason to go there. Perhaps some of those other American have explanations similar to yours. I know a couple who divide their time between here (America) and Egypt. That is their business, their commerce and their lifestyle. Like you.

We can call them idiots if you like, but I just wanted to check with you first to see if you are comfortable with that label.

And the rest of you who think everyone should pay as they go.....for diplomatic attention overseas, or for fire protection for your home, or perhaps having exclusively toll-roads, toll-sewers and toll-police. You need to get together with FastPat. That's his position.

The rest of us prefer to pool our money and build our own sewer systems, rather than being bent over by commercial interests. Halliburton will be looking for revenue when this Iraq thing winds down. Perhaps you'd like to sell them a road system so they can charge you tolls.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by Porsche-O-Phile
1. The stem cell research veto. What a short-sighted tool. 'nuff said.

If this is a veto on government funded research, then finally Bush has made a correct decision, if on the other hand, it's a veto to permit (an oxymoron in a "free" country) privately funded research then he's proven once again to be a sociofascist. Government has no place, and no Constitutional authorization, in healthcare or medical research.

2. (continued) intransigence on Israel/Lebanon ("uh. . . well, we don't like what Hizbollah is doing but. . . uh. . . we don't like what Israel is doing either". Bravo. What visionary and decisive statesman-like leadership. . .

Naturally, I favor the US government withdrawal of all foreign aid everywhere, not just the mideast. This current Israeli sponsored terrorism is just one reason to support such a curtailment.

3. The dumbass comment to Putin about "engaging in Iraq-style democracy" (even Putin couldn't help cracking a wry smile at our "leader's" overt stupidity on the world stage over that one).

That's just another crack at Russian assertion of its' place as one of the world's great powers.

4. (this one takes the cake - just heard it) U.S. citizens being evacuated from Lebanon are being forced to sign IOUs to the U.S. government at the port before being allowed on chartered ships to get them out of the country. They will have 90 days to make restitution to the U.S. government for an as-yet undisclosed amount (might be $500, might be $50,000 - you just don't know until you get the bill, Jack!)

Yet we're continuing to pay $45+ for a case of Sprite to subsidize Cheney's poor widdle Haliburton buddies.

This is nothing more than slight curtailment of cost externalization, which has been going on since Jefferson sent the US navy and Marines to Tripoli to protect New England shipping companys who wanted free "muscle".

If you, or I, travel outside the US we should shoulder the full burden of self defense, or if one is unable or unwilling to do so, one should remain home.

At what point will people seriously start saying "enough"?

Hopefully it starts with this fall. I'm not a Democrat, but I'm beginning to think more and more that there's some serious merit to their position that "ANYTHING is better than what we have now". Maybe we should just start there and work out the rest later.

Just frustrated with such overt stupidity.

I agree that many people could do a better job than the Bush'ists running things now; having no one in government at all would be even better.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by on-ramp
you forgot the "Yo Blair" and "$hit" over wine and crackers! ha ha

#4 is disturbing. As an American Citizen, I expect my government to protect me at no additional charge. isn't that why we pay federal taxes?

when your house is on fire and a fireman comes in to save your burning a$$, does he bill you later for saving your life?

The US government is charged with defending the country from external threats, but there is no Constitutional authorization for it to protect you and any other American who travels overseas. You do, and should do, that at your own risk. To do otherwise is to demand that others pay for your risky adventure.

[techweenie]

Not one of you has touched on the real point:

Lebanon hasn't been a "danger spot" in a long, long time.

It has become dangerous because of the Israelis randomly killing civilians there.

The bill for evacuating Americans, Canadians, Europeans, etc. should be on Israel.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

On a related note, has anyone heard anything about the alleged Israeli kidnapping of two Lebanese citizens (one was a doctor, IIRC) BEFORE the abduction of the Israeli soldiers that Faux News and others would lead people to believe was the spark that ignited this mess?

Granted if true the response (by Hezbollah) was inappropriate, but it does cast a pall of doubt upon the "legitimacy" of Israel's action. It takes two to tango. Personally I think we should pull our people out and discontinue any and all aid to both countries.