CCW - When And Where Do You Carry?

[on2wheels52]

Originally posted by ZLP
A carry gun is useless w/o one ready to go in the chamber. Any time you draw your gun its going to be a spit second life or death situation and your not going to have the time to rack one. I would rethink what your doin...

I disagree. I feel few situations would require a fast-draw type shootout. A bit of time to reflect on what one is about to do could be beneficial. A case could be made for racking the slide of a .45 to jacking a round in a pump shotgun. Sometimes on seeing/hearing this the one about to be on the receiving end may decide to have a change of heart.
Or am I the only one to keep a riot gun with an empty chamber?
Jim

[red-beard]

I don't believe in the fast draw situation. What I do believe is that it takes 2 hands to rack the slide. Better to keep one in the pipe. It only takes my thumb to switch off the slide safety.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by on2wheels52
I disagree. I feel few situations would require a fast-draw type shootout. A bit of time to reflect on what one is about to do could be beneficial. A case could be made for racking the slide of a .45 to jacking a round in a pump shotgun. Sometimes on seeing/hearing this the one about to be on the receiving end may decide to have a change of heart.
Or am I the only one to keep a riot gun with an empty chamber?
Jim

You just may be the only one. When you need to be utterly and completely focused on a home invader, you're distracted by cycling the action, during which you are completely vulnerable, and if your weapon should decide to have a failure to feed at that critical moment, you are left holding an expensive club and your nut-sack.

All of my defensive weapons are loaded and chambered at all times. If I pick one up, all I need to do is shift the safety to off.

[Jeff Higgins]

Granted this is all pretty academic, as history shows none of us are ever likey to actually have to use a gun in self defense, but I find it surprising just how many folks are comfortable with a complicated club vs. a firearm. It's not a fiream until it has one in the pipe.

I have seen guys stress out and get "buck fever" when presented with a very good buck. Their lives are not even on the line, and they freak out and forget how to operate their firearm. While I have never, and pray to God I will never be in a position to have to defend my life, I can well imagine the stress involved with that. Do yourselves a favor and keep the damn thing loaded, with one in the chamber.

The only "dangerous" gun is a miss-handled gun. Observe proper gun handling practices and a chambered round will never be a problem. A guy writing about safety in a gun magazine years ago related the story of his indoctrination into the Army. Being a shooter before he enlisted, and rather proud of what he considered to be his wealth of knowledge, he couldn't help but approach a sargeant concerning his sidearm. Seems the guy was carrying the old 1911 "cocked and locked". Our man felt that was rather dangerous, and said so. "Of course the goddamn thing is dangerous, son, I wouldn't be carrying the SOB if it wasn't!"

[Racerbvd]

Originally posted by on2wheels52
I disagree. I feel few situations would require a fast-draw type shootout. A bit of time to reflect on what one is about to do could be beneficial. A case could be made for racking the slide of a .45 to jacking a round in a pump shotgun. Sometimes on seeing/hearing this the one about to be on the receiving end may decide to have a change of heart.
Or am I the only one to keep a riot gun with an empty chamber?
Jim

If it gets to this point, there won't be a change of heart.

[red-beard]

Originally posted by on2wheels52
A case could be made for racking the slide of a .45 to jacking a round in a pump shotgun. Sometimes on seeing/hearing this the one about to be on the receiving end may decide to have a change of heart.

You have been watching too many movies. Bad guys who are intent on violence do not have "changes of heart" when hearing a pump action shotgun cycle, since most won't even hear it.

The only case I can think where this might work, is where the attacker is not armed or not well as well armed. But I seriosuly doubt it.

Originally posted by jyl
Any views on Glaser Safety Slugs or similar?

Ahh, bullet type discussions. I love them. My opinion is to believe what the FBI stats and tests have shown. Permanent wound channel is the way measure the effectiveness. That and penetration. To be effective, a round needs to penetrate at least 12 inches to reach the vital organs.

The FBI also showed that the bigger the round, the more likely you are to hit something vital and create a "stop".

Based on those stats, I have switched all of my 32 ACP rounds to FMJ. I have also looked at my Hollowpoint rounds and made sure they will penetrate at least 12-18 inches. More than 24 inches of penetration and you're likely to get an exit wound. One thing to remember, the skin on the exit, acts like 6 inches of flesh. It is actually pretty tough stuff. Rifle rounds are smaller, and faster. They are much more likely to over penetrate than pistol rounds. If a pistol round does exit, it has very little energy left.

I have settled on Speer Gold dots for 2 reasons. They have very good penetration characterists but will still expand in most situations. I also settled on 45 ACP as my preferred round.

So, back to the safety slugs. You are shooting a round that will pulverise when it hits. So, you get a very nasty wound, but little penetration (Think Dick Cheney and the shot gun). .32-.38 slugs are much better at penetrating than bid shot. Better to pick single O or Double O buck than #4 Birdshot.

Oh and the movies show guys thrown up in the air when hit with a shotgun. This is pure Hollywood. If this were the case, the shooter would also have been thrown onto his back after pulling the trigger.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by red-beard
You have been watching too many movies. Bad guys who are intent on violence do not have "changes of heart" when hearing a pump action shotgun cycle, since most won't even hear it.

The only case I can think where this might work, is where the attacker is not armed or not well as well armed. But I seriosuly doubt it.



Ahh, bullet type discussions. I love them. My opinion is to believe what the FBI stats and tests have shown. Permanent wound channel is the way measure the effectiveness. That and penetration. To be effective, a round needs to penetrate at least 12 inches to reach the vital organs.

The FBI also showed that the bigger the round, the more likely you are to hit something vital and create a "stop".

Based on those stats, I have switched all of my 32 ACP rounds to FMJ. I have also looked at my Hollowpoint rounds and made sure they will penetrate at least 12-18 inches. More than 24 inches of penetration and you're likely to get an exit wound. One thing to remember, the skin on the exit, acts like 6 inches of flesh. It is actually pretty tough stuff. Rifle rounds are smaller, and faster. They are much more likely to over penetrate than pistol rounds. If a pistol round does exit, it has very little energy left.

I have settled on Speer Gold dots for 2 reasons. They have very good penetration characterists but will still expand in most situations. I also settled on 45 ACP as my preferred round.

So, back to the safety slugs. You are shooting a round that will pulverise when it hits. So, you get a very nasty wound, but little penetration (Think Dick Cheney and the shot gun). .32-.38 slugs are much better at penetrating than bid shot. Better to pick single O or Double O buck than #4 Birdshot.

Oh and the movies show guys thrown up in the air when hit with a shotgun. This is pure Hollywood. If this were the case, the shooter would also have been thrown onto his back after pulling the trigger.

Number 6 birdshot is a stopper at distances likely to be found in the average home, 10-15 feet. 12ga. shot column's are smaller in diameter than a man's fist at those distances. This size shot is often fatal at these distances and is ideal for an apartment dweller or in a home in close proximity to another home. #6 shot usually won't penetrate two layers of 1/2 inch sheetrock.

I've assisted in opening thousand's of humans for surgery, and never seen one that needed more than 3-4 inches of penetration in the thoracic area, or 7-8 inches in the abdominal area which isn't where you want to aim anyway. Those were very rare. The chest wall is most commonly about 1.5-2 inches thick, including the ribs. I'm sure there are specimens of humans that exceed what I've seen, but most of them would run out of breath getting out of a car, must less climbing through a window.

[fintstone]

Originally posted by red-beard
....Oh and the movies show guys thrown up in the air when hit with a shotgun. This is pure Hollywood. If this were the case, the shooter would also have been thrown onto his back after pulling the trigger.

When you shoot someone up close with a shotgun, they do sort of fall backwards (not really go flying)...sometimes if you are off a little bit from center...they spin around somewhat....perhaps it is because they are more off balance than the one shooting. Either way, even though they are "gutshot" and incapacitated, you usually have to go over and club them to death with the shotgun or use you knife if you want them to die quickly.

[fastpat]

Originally posted by fintstone
When you shoot someone up close with a shotgun, they do sort of fall backwards (not really go flying)...sometimes if you are off a little bit from center...they spin around somewhat....perhaps it is because they are more off balance than the one shooting. Either way, even though they are "gutshot" and incapacitated, you usually have to go over and club them to death with the shotgun or use you knife if you want them to die quickly.

I've always found a bullet right in that hollow below the ear works really quickly to stop the twitching. A .22 won't get "it" all over you either.