Labor Union shakedown.

[legion]

Originally posted by hytem
Unionized blue collar workers have fared better, in my experience.

In 1978, there were roughly 16,000 Caterpillar union employees in and around Peoria, Illinois. I was born in Peoria that year. My father worked for IBM. I remember my father telling stories about how when he would go to the pharmacy, he'd have to fight with the pharmacist to convince them that they took IBM insurance--they'd never seen anything other than Cat insurance...

Today, there are roughly 2,000 Caterpillar union employees around Peoria. People are not replaced when they retire. Contract employees are used to replace union employees.

[lendaddy]

I have no probelm with the existance of unions, it's a reasonable idea.

But when they go on strike the employer should have every right to say "ok, you're all collectively fired".

[JavaBrewer]

Aren't the SoCal grocery chains due for another union mandated strike?

[fireant911]

I am going to hopefully keep my opinions of unions out of this reply...

Disclaimer - Moses, I am in Alabama and the folks I consulted about your issue are also in Alabama. None even pretend to know or understand the laws that exist in California.

My wife, who is an HR professional and SPHR certified, believes that a contract exists (which someone alluded to earlier) for the union. Being that your son is merely 16 makes the contract null and void. I then spoke to a Phd professor of Human Resources this evening and she too thinks that the contract (if in existence) is unenforceable because of your son's age.

Call one of the Business / Human Resources professors at a university in your state and see if there is any truth to this. If it is mandatory, encourage him to seek employment elsewhere as this requirement ridiculous.

Okay, I cannot hold back any longer... unions suck. They have far outlived any useful purpose in America. My guess is that China will be their next target; however, because of the sheer volume of workers available organizing attempts will fail. Luckily, Alabama doesn't require a worker to join. We all are entitled to our opinions however wrong others may find them to be.

[Moneyguy1]

All things in moderation. I would not want to see the country return to the robber-baron days, nor do I want to see an economy dominated by teamster type organizations. Either extreme would be a disaster. Ya gotta remember....we, as stockholders and consumers pay the salaries of management to negotiate and not to simply cave in to demands because "it's the easy thing to do". Their job is to keep costs in line and the union 's goal is to get everything it can. Negotiation should be such that neither rules completely. There have been abuses on both sides over the years but the unions would not be (a) as powerful or (b) so endangered IF management had done its job.

[M.D. Holloway]

This would make a great article! I would love the opportunity to write something. I will not use his name but the whole thing is completely amazing!

[Rearden]

Originally posted by Moneyguy1
Ask why there is so much rancor between those making a modest income and those making multiples in "management" while selling their company down the river. That may sound harsh, but if one examines why we, in the US are at a disadvantage in manufacturing, one only has to look at the emphasis on dividends to shareholders in lieu of technological improvements and plant renovation. Tell me....where is the steel industry located now?

The US is the third largest producer of steel in the world, behind China and Japan.
To take a look at how unions affect a company's ability to operate efficiently, compare the US auto manufacturers in this country to the non-union foreign firms who build cars here.

[Hugh R]

I work in Hollywood (Disney) and I used to chair the Motion Picture and Television Industry Labor-Management Safety Committee. The organization I worked for, The Alliance of Motion Picture and Television Producers (AMPTP) which you'll often see on credits. In this industries case, unions work relatively well. We have lots of day hires, and the hiring and firing is simple, your guaranteed 8 hours of work and that's it. If you don't work out "We won't need you tomorrow". I've also see a very cooperative shift in labor working with the producers on safety, training, and a bunch of other issues, because a lot of filming is moving to eastern Europe. The unions in LA want to keep filming here.

[craigster59]

Hugh, I'm in an IATSE Union and I, as well as you, have seen things change in this Industry. Cheaper labor in foreign countries has made it easier for film projects to be "greenlighted" for production.

Although we still have issues locally, (acc.CWW), it's still a safer and better way to shoot a film whether in Canada, U.S. , Britain, etc, as long as you use an experienced crew which is normally IA based.

We want to stay here, and I know you want to stay here

[legion]

Let me be clear. I don't think unions should be abolished. I think that in some industries they serve a valuable purpose. The IBEW and Plumber's Unions provide training, for example. My problem is that current laws favor unions, and in non-skilled and semi-skilled trades, the UAW and Teamsters use sympathetic laws to bludgeon companies (and not just large corporations) into submission. I simply think that the balance of power needs to be shifted away from unions. Electricians and plumbers, who do have skills that take longer than 5 minutes to acquire, would probably be largely unaffected.

[Moneyguy1]

Wayne...respectfully....and CEOs and corporate boards have not abused their power? The trick is to have a system where the constant tension results in a workable equilibrium. Like I said previously, I do not want to see a system where either labor or management runs the whole show.

[lendaddy]

Bob, can you gve me an example of how corporations have too much power over the unions? I admit my bias, so I may be missing something obvious to others.

[Moneyguy1]

len...I am sorry if I was not clear. I am refering to management ruining corporations by excessive finageling of the books, vastly overpaid CEOs, poor decision making and the like. These are abuses as well. I am advocating, as I said, a "tension" situation, maintaining balance. I am reminded of the old adage: "Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely".

I am neither strongly pro management or pro unions. I have negotiated on both sides and this has given me a unique perspective.Both have a role to play in the overall economy. Labor cannot exist without management and vise versa.

[red-beard]

So, the shareholders don't have a say in how the company is run, or an expectation of dividends? Who owns the corporation, anyway?

[Moneyguy1]

red: I have wondered that for years....

Consider who owns the shares.....the major league individuals and the mutual funds. My vote on my 100 shares here or there make very little difference in the end.

It isn't who "owns" the corporation, it is a question of who has the power. Kind of like politicians. Do they serve us or do we serve them?

[red-beard]

Yes, but i have the choice to pull my shares and invest somewhere else. I also have the choice to quit and work someplace else. That is where the analogy falls down.

And yes, this is _REAL_ representative democracy in action. I get a vote for each share I buy. The more I have, the more say I have in the corporation. I see no problem with this.

[Moneyguy1]

Sadly, I do. Your choice, as you post is for all intents and purposes limited to going from one investment to another. Unless you are a major player or sit on a board of directors, your votes are not worth a gallon of warm spit. Finance was my stock-in-trade. The abuse on both sides is patently obvious and the small shareholder doesn't even enter into the management equation.

The world of labor/management is a complex one and I do not pretend to fully understand it, even after years of being involved in it up to my neck.

[tabs]

Originally posted by Wayne at Pelican Parts
There once was a time and place for unions. Unfortunately, for years they abused their power and have now cripled industries that are no longer competitive.

-Wayne

U mean SO that they are no longer competitive. The cost of Pensions at GM has nearly put the company under.

[tabs]

Originally posted by SLO-BOB


I'll take this opportunity to jump up on the soap box and bash unions in general. Your story is typical of union greed. What used to be a fine organization that protected the common man has now become big business who's member's interests come in a distant second place to it's own financial interests and self propagation. Union standards for excellence and training have been replaced by - more members=more money. The same mentality that pays a guy $65+ an hour to "drive" an elevator in New York also leeches money from a 16 year old trying to earn some extra coin. Really sad.

U JUST found this out. This is about as accurate a statement about Unions as there is. The only exception is that the Unions don't really give a fk about the Monthly dues, that pays the light bill down at Union Headquaters. The REAL money is in the contributions that the Companies make for the Pension and Health & Welfare Bennies. The Unions will go on strike the minute those are threatened to be cut off. Take a look at the average number of years an employee works for a Union Company vs the number of years it takes to become vested in the Pension plan.

Now for U Union Bashers...I wonder how long you would be singing that song if you worked for Ford back in the day before Unions came into the picture.

My Cousins Wife worked for the President of one of the Unions as his Legal Secratary, I have always asked her what really happened to him and about a certain day in Dallas.

[red-beard]

Asked? I always thought you were involved....