Radar detector and cops

[Zef]

As you know...radar detectors are forbidden here in Quebec...But I want one anyway...Question: How the cops will know that you have one in your car...? Is there a way for them to detect that...?

[madmmac]

Yes the Police using the Spectre radar guns can detect your detector. The Bel STI was the only one a while ago that was not detectable.

[avi8torny]

This is an easy one. When you go by, and they go from the "standby mode" to the "instant on" mode you acknowledge to them that you have a detector by the nice bright red brake lights you display or the fact that the car behind you that is following way to close for the speed you are traveling, almost rear ends you. Absent being behind you, when they see the target display go from the "instant on" speed that the unit displays to a lower speed very quickly, it's pretty evident that you have some type of electical warning device or maybe you just have great reflexes. Remember though that RADAR is a verification of what the officer observes, not the other way around. Just like braking at the track before a turn, it's easy to see the nose of the car dive.

BTW, no detector will defeat the "instant on" device with an operator who knows what he or she is doing. It will help defeat a radar operator who constantly "pollutes" the airwaves with whatever band his/her unit operates on.

Haven't seen many radar detector/detectors in state's that allow their use other than with the Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Units. They have them because operating a truck in NY over 16,000# with a detector is illegal.

[dshepp806]

And how is the radar DETECTOR electronically "detected?

Best,

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by dshepp806

And how is the radar DETECTOR electronically "detected?

Best,

A rader detector has an oscillator as part of it's circuitry, this device emits rf that can be detected.

[osidak]

that is why the hand brake is useful when in super cruise mode - much less noise dive and no tale tale brake lights

[masraum]

From the Valentine One website

Aren't radar detectors illegal in a lot of places?
- T.G., Virginia

You still have the right to know when you're under radar surveillance almost everywhere in the US. The exceptions are Virginia, which bans detector use, and nearby Washington, D.C., which bans possession. Canada is much less friendly toward civil liberties. Detectors are banned everywhere except British Columbia, Alberta, and Saskatchewan.


Does Valentine One have "stealth?"
Is this the same as being VG2 proof?
- H.C., Idaho

The real question is, can V1 be found by an instrument called a "radar-detector detector?"

Good radar detectors, like good AM/FM radios, are super-heterodyne receivers, and they all share a common trait. They receive, but they also transmit a signal; it's called "local oscillator emissions." This transmitted signal can be found by another radio if it's tuned to the right frequency. A radar-detector detector is merely a radio tuned to the right frequency range for most detectors.

VG2 is the most famous of the radar-detector detectors.

A little history: Escort was the first X-K super-heterodyne detector. Jim Jaeger and I invented it, working out of his basement in the mid-seventies. Since then, other detector makers have taken the easy way and copied Escort's frequency scheme, which means they have the same L-O frequency. So VG2 knows right where to tune for them.

The one detector that's apart from the pack is V1. I didn't copy myself. So VG2 misses Valentine One. In our tests, Valentine One is better than all others for VG2-proofing. Our best competitors are pretty good, maybe good enough. Some others resort to a dubious strategy; they switch off their radar protection when they sense VG2 nearby.

Recently, we've been hearing of another radar-detector detector, the Spectre RDD. Used first in Canada, enforcers of detector bans in Virginia and Washington, DC, and the nationwide ban in heavy trucks, surely have this tool on their must-have list. It claims to have been designed specifically "to detect the latest state of the art stealth-type radar warning receivers." Does it find V1? Very likely, according to reports we've been hearing from a few V1 users. One participant in an internet chat room, who claimed to be a Canadian enforcer, said "I've snagged a Valentine 1 already." We've been unable to acquire a Spectre RDD for testing. Until we can do so, be advised that no super-heterodyne receiver is perfectly undetectable, and that includes V1.

[VaSteve]

If you hear the tones, lift*, don't brake.

*unless you're in a 911 in a turn.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by avi8torny

This is an easy one. When you go by, and we go from the "standby mode" to the "instant on" mode you acknowledge to us that you have a detector by the nice bright red brake lights you display or the fact that the car behind you that is following way to close for the speed you are traveling, almost rear ends you. Absent being behind you, when we see the target display go from the "instant on" speed that the unit displays to a lower speed very quickly, it's pretty evident that you have some type of electical warning device or maybe you just have great reflexes. Remember though that RADAR is a verification of what the officer observes, not the other way around. Just like braking at the track before a turn, it's easy to see the nose of the car dive.

BTW, no detector will defeat the "instant on" device with an operator who knows what he or she is doing. It will help defeat a radar operator who constantly "pollutes" the airwaves with whatever band his/her unit operates on.

Haven't seen many radar detector/detectors in state's that allow their use other than with the Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Units. They have them because operating a truck in NY over 16,000# with a detector is illegal.

If you have a good detector and you are not the only vehicle within miles, you will easily detect the instant-on radar frying someone else while you are still well outside of the revenue-collector's line of sight. That is when you slow down, not when you are driving past the radar gun. If someone drives around speeding down a highway paying no attention to the presence (or absence) of LE, or other hazards for that matter, a RD will not help them much. They can't make you smart, no matter how much you paid for it.

[Jeff Higgins]

Mike Valentine used to have an article on the web about the problems with certain instant-on technologies. Something about taking a reading before they had enough time to go through some critical, self-checking verification cycle. The initial reading was absolutely unrelieable because of this. The manufacturer apparently knows this, and most departments using this model know this as well.

Does this prevent these departments from using them in this mode and busting people when they know full well they may be getting false readings? Hell no. Does this prevent courts from convicting based on these questionable readings? Again, hell no. So what is the answer?

Most folks do not realize traffic courts generally operate under the "preponderance of evidence" standard. This is a level of evidence intended for use in civil courts, where the court must find for one of the parties in the suit. It means essentially that "51%" of the available "proof" tilts it one way or another. It has too, really. The judge has to find for some one. But is "preponderance" appropriate for use in traffic court?

Hell no. The "State" (meaning any governmental jurisdiction for the sake of brevity) has charged a citizen with wrong doing. The standard used to be "beyond a reasonable doubt", just as in any criminal case in which the State charges a citizen. The State changed the rules when no one was looking, to the far lower "preponderance" standard, because they simply could not win under the "reasonable doubt" standard. They are miss-applying the lower standard simply to get more convictions.

Virtually any judge will assume 51% on the fact that you are there alone; on the fact that the cop wrote you. There is no longer effectively any burden of proof placed upon the State to prove you did it. Cop says you did; you did. You are now effectivle guilty until you can prove your innocence. Even with all of the players on the State's side knowing full well there are problems with radar in general, and instant on in particular. I will never feel the least bit guilty for running one in this environment, even if it is illegal to do so. What the State has chose to do in the name of traffic enforcement is illegal as well.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Here in the states, even if a cop thinks he got a "hit" on his detector detector, he still has to figure out who it was. If it is discretely mounted that is all but impossible, unless you are the only car in sight on the road. Even then, if you can get it locked in the glove box before he stops you, he has absolutley no legal right to ask you to open it for inspection. The only things he gets to look at are those that are visible from outside of the car. He cannot look in the glove box, the trunk, under the hood, or under the seats. Any luggage, brief cases, back packs, jackets, or whatever require a search warrant to inspect. So unless it is still in plain sight when he stops you, he will have to get a warrant to find it.

Yes, most will try like hell to intimidate you into consenting to a search. Here in the U.S., they can only detain you for a "reasonable" amount of time. Most courts consider 10-15 minutes "reasonable", after which time, in the absence of a warrant or any evidence, they must let you go. Most won't be able to turn up a warrant in that amount of time. The best part is, you don't even have to answer their questions, or talk to them at all for that matter. Provide them your license, registration, proof of insurance and shut up. If you have stuffed the thing into your glove box, or a backpack sitting next to you on the seat, or wherever, they will have one hell of a time finding it unless you let them.

[avi8torny]

Originally Posted by VaSteve

If you hear the tones, lift*, don't brake.

*unless you're in a 911 in a turn.

Radar units require multiple returns AT THE SAME SPEED in order for it to display. Mind you this happens quickly but nonetheless, many identical returns. This is in the violators favor. Braking very hard (hopefully no one is close behind you) will most likely not allow the radar unit to display the target speed because the speed is changing so rapidly. Also returns from much bigger vehicles will dominate the returns that the radar unit receives. The audio portion of the return can be heard for both vehicles, lower pitch for slower vehicles, higher pitch for faster vehicles. Because the dominant vehicle gives a stronger return (doppler) and the unit can acquire the multiples it needs for it's logic, the display will indicate the dominant vehicle along with the audio returns for both.

Many people believe that a radar display is primary information used in traffic courts. This is a misnomer. The officers observation of your speed is primary, and supported with radar, laser or vascar. Convictions have been supported by observations only.

[dbrisson]

This seems to be a fairly informative site. I love the car with the spectr left on. In the link below you can see a bel sti and then another brand. Not sure of authenticity but sure looks like a real life scenario.

Spectre 4 gun from VA
http://www.guysoflidar.com/spectre-4-in-virginia.html

http://www.guysoflidar.com/

[VaSteve]

I got nailed on I81 in VA last fall with the V1 on. It blipped a little and I lifted. IIRC I was one of very few cars on the road. I slowed and all the sudden saw something closing fast. I tucked the V1 into the junk in the backseat and accepted the ticket. When the cop pulled off, he had one of those "slicktop" Camaros. A real pro hunting for speeders. I just took it like a man.

I was in the 944 at the time...apparently saying "it's an old car, I don't rust the speedo" doesn't carry much weight. :lol:

[charleskieffner]

radar jammers made here in scottsdale work very well. ask us how we know!

while performing our experiment on the way to baja one wednesday night very late at night we found out that our passport 8500 works very well on CHP's after yuma. we were cruising at about a 100mph in the doolie from hell enjoying life. passport goes off and jump on brakes. in the median is CHP. we have jammer on. we are only ones on I-8 headed west. we continue on and notice headlights behind us. after a while of this he is catching up to our 65mph speed. we turn jammer off. and he comes up behind, runs plate then backs off and we continue on until his headlights gone.

jammer goes back on, and we hit a 100mph again!

dont know mfgs. name but it is made in scottsdale airpark. my only gripe if yer the only juan on the road it will be fairly evident to cop you are the one w/jammer on because his readout says you are going a million miles per hour or ZERO! any cop working radar/laser for any time will know hes being jammed.

it did save us a ticket and possible jail!

[9dreizig]

[QUOTE=charleskieffner;3548917]radar jammers made here in scottsdale work very well. ask us how we know!

Those are illegal as hell!!! I want one!! Can you PM me where we can buy one? How much was it ?

[RoninLB]

I watch for HP entering at an on-ramp on a curve. They watch and zoom they're right behind you. Their ramps seems to always need a neck twist to check out. One guy who entered in front of me zoomed ahead at big speed to laser me 10mi later. I was alone on road so limit +5 for me without foreword bait. I-10 in Texas is full of curves and HP entering behind you.

Some western state's HP leave radar on full time during non-tourist season to just slow the locals.

Ohio HP seems the worst. One Ohio HP even tried to bait me with his smoked glass Camaro. Like the guy took it personal that I wasn't speeding in my 911.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by avi8torny

This is an easy one. When you go by, and we go from the "standby mode" to the "instant on" mode you acknowledge to us that you have a detector by the nice bright red brake lights you display or the fact that the car behind you that is following way to close for the speed you are traveling, almost rear ends you. Absent being behind you, when we see the target display go from the "instant on" speed that the unit displays to a lower speed very quickly, it's pretty evident that you have some type of electical warning device or maybe you just have great reflexes. Remember though that RADAR is a verification of what the officer observes, not the other way around. Just like braking at the track before a turn, it's easy to see the nose of the car dive.

So you OBSERVE a car speeding and the gun verifies you? Come on dude. Do you guys get your eyeballs callibrated?

BTW, no detector will defeat the "instant on" device with an operator who knows what he or she is doing. It will help defeat a radar operator who constantly "pollutes" the airwaves with whatever band his/her unit operates on.

Glad to see that police arrogance. If I'm out on a road alone you have a better chance. In traffic, I will pick you up when you shoot the guy in front of me.

Haven't seen many radar detector/detectors in state's that allow their use other than with the Commercial Vehicle Enforcement Units. They have them because operating a truck in NY over 16,000# with a detector is illegal.

NC is "eat up" with them. But a good detector & a savvy driver still have very good chances.

..

[avi8torny]

So you OBSERVE a car speeding and the gun verifies you? Come on dude. Do you guys get your eyeballs callibrated? - Mule

I was just giving you info on what it does and how it's used. Thought it would dispel some misconceptions. Wasn't meant to be arrogance.

[legion]

Originally Posted by Jeff Higgins

Most folks do not realize traffic courts generally operate under the "preponderance of evidence" standard. This is a level of evidence intended for use in civil courts, where the court must find for one of the parties in the suit. It means essentially that "51%" of the available "proof" tilts it one way or another. It has too, really. The judge has to find for some one. But is "preponderance" appropriate for use in traffic court?

Hell no. The "State" (meaning any governmental jurisdiction for the sake of brevity) has charged a citizen with wrong doing. The standard used to be "beyond a reasonable doubt", just as in any criminal case in which the State charges a citizen. The State changed the rules when no one was looking, to the far lower "preponderance" standard, because they simply could not win under the "reasonable doubt" standard. They are miss-applying the lower standard simply to get more convictions.

Virtually any judge will assume 51% on the fact that you are there alone; on the fact that the cop wrote you. There is no longer effectively any burden of proof placed upon the State to prove you did it. Cop says you did; you did. You are now effectivle guilty until you can prove your innocence. Even with all of the players on the State's side knowing full well there are problems with radar in general, and instant on in particular. I will never feel the least bit guilty for running one in this environment, even if it is illegal to do so. What the State has chose to do in the name of traffic enforcement is illegal as well.

This is the real issue IMO. Speeding is a crime where you are guilty until proven innocent. This is a perversion of the justice system.

[charleskieffner]

phazerII jammer-X-Y-K-KA-LAZER(laser) 139.95 on sale 200 bucks retail.

once again................in traffic works perfect. all alone................YER DEAD MEAT! all cop has to do is get on freeway and start clocking you via speedo.

when passport goes off..............grab mongo brake, and disconnect jammer until vizual threat is over. then plug jammer back in and yer "IN-WHIZ-ABIL" ie. stealth mode!

we did this again after leaving baja coming out from mexicali/calexico and this time it was daylight. CHP would hide on top of on ramp, passport would go off and we just slowed down to limit until passport shut up, then turned jammer back on.

while going thru gila gunnery range both ways on I-8, passport was going apeshi!. never saw one cop in az. along that stretch. but lots of miltary helos and fixed wing bombing hell out of range, so in our infinite wizz-dumb, we figured the military was doing radar jamming themselves or lazzzzzer guided bomb attacks on lonely scared sonoran dezzert ante-lopezzz critters!