ricer encounter

[Superman]

Went to a local speed shop a couple of years ago along with some other Porsche guys, to visit the wheel dyno. After dynoing a couple of cars, I said to the dyno operator guy:

"Here we are with several wimpy 200-hp NA Porsches. I'll bet you see some pretty ferocious cars."

He said:

"Yeah. That black Honda over there makes 500 hp and the white Supra next to it makes 800 hp."

There are nine-second Hondas out there. Be careful who you pick fights with.

[Drago]

Originally Posted by 911teo

Last week a guy with an R34 (6 cyl + sick turbo) handed it to me (V8 + supercharger) at Brands Hatch. It was just a track day, his car was track prepared whilst mine is completely stock....

Still my car is putting out close to 530 rwhp.... and it is no slouch.

Yet he was pulling away from me...

Yes the track was more suited to a 4x4,... i didnt want to push etc... Still it was a very well sorted car, possibly pushing 600-650 rwhp and was driven right...

I would not dismiss them so lightly...

I'd never dismiss them, I simply have no interest.

The Mighty 2.0T is all I can handle. Once I learn how to drive it, I'll move up the power grid.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

No doubt. There are serious race-built automobiles and then there are poseur ricer types that can't spell a word longer than three syllables and think their fart-can equipped econo box might actually get them laid. Big difference.

There are some pretty serious Honda guys I've run into online that actually do their own BLOCK CASTING. That's pretty hard-core.

[911teo]

Originally Posted by Drago

I'd never dismiss them, I simply have no interest.

The Mighty 2.0T is all I can handle. Once I learn how to drive it, I'll move up the power grid.

My post was not directed to you or anybody in particular.

Those cars are not my cup of tea either.

It's just that some of them are very nicely sorted and can hang with the best out there.

I was able to stay with some Radicals on slick tires, so I was not that slow... Yet this guy just blew me off.

Kudos to him I say...

[Drago]

Originally Posted by 911teo

My post was not directed to you or anybody in particular.

Those cars are not my cup of tea either.

It's just that some of them are very nicely sorted and can hang with the best out there.

I was able to stay with some Radicals on slick tires, so I was not that slow... Yet this guy just blew me off.

Kudos to him I say...

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate some of the better put together ricers out there. It's just not something I'd ever consider owning.

[rammstein]

Sad thing is, for every impressive Integra or Civic out there, there are 100 that are nothing more than noisemakers and Bondo collectors.

However, that really sets up the real guys nicely. They can drive up in their Civic at the drag strip, and nobody expects much.

[911teo]

Originally Posted by Drago

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate some of the better put together ricers out there. It's just not something I'd ever consider owning.

We are in complete agreement!

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Cornpanzer

Actually, youhave to give the Sport Compact guys more credit than that. Many of the hard core racers get more power per CI than any production based V8's. So in a way they are more than half a v8

I don't think they are and I don't give them more credit than that. I know V8 guys who stopped tuning at 3000hp because that was already more than they could get down the track. I've seen SB Fords in the 2000hp range run all season on race gas & oil changes. That my friend is 5 hp per cubic inch, on gasoline, no spray. Show me the imports beating that.

PS At least American car guys know which wheels should drive the car. Drag racing w/ fwd is like eating ribs with a knife & fork.

[TerryBPP]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I had some sideways-hat, baggy-pants jackass come up to me at a gas station when I had my 951 one time looking to start some schit. He had a bondo-ed up Civic or some other similar POS and starts in with "hey man is that car fast"? (I responded by saying "depends who's asking"). Finally he asks me if I want to follow him and we can race 0-60. I responded by saying that street racing is for *********s but if he wants to meet me at Willow Springs some weekend I'd be happy to race him 0-160. He just slinked off.

Who breeds these people, anyway?

This sounds like a completely BS story.

[SlowToady]

Somewhere I have tucked in my stack of magazines a Honda tuner mag. I kept it for the cover story:

HOW TO BUILD A 650HP TURBO B18

It ran something completely insane like 26 pounds of boost, and the attention to detail was, for lack of a better word, outstanding. I seriously considered getting something B18 powered after reading that. At the $10 or $12K it cost, the performance for dollar spent blows just about everything out of the water.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by TerryBPP

This sounds like a completely BS story.

You'd think, but these sorts of people are really out there. Scary.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by Mule

I've had this conversation w/ import guys before. They take a fwd 4cyl, apply some technology, race a stock Mustang & think they are fast. A guy I know bought a stock 2003 Cobra new, replaced the stock blower with a Kennee Bell unit, added a chip & an x pipe, drove it to work every day & ran low 9's on drag radials. Any way you slice it, a 4 cyl is half a V8.

That's all well and good mule, but you're talking about some a-hole with a stock Civic and a fart can. Many of the Japanese turbo cars that are quick stock can be made into absolute monsters with some light mods. A few examples are the WRX, RX7, 300ZX (TT), Eclipse, and Supra. And unlike your Mustang, they can also be made to handle well. Pretty stupid to underestimate the potential these cars have. Just look at Jim's 500HP+ monster RX7.

Of course, the guys that cut the muffler off of a primered Civic, then cover it with stickers and wings, they're just idiots.

[Mule]

I hate to break it to you Matt, but a IRS, '03 Cobra handles pretty well. Light mods on any of the cars you mentioned will result in a Mustang disappearing into the distance, on any track.

No underestimation here. i understand what it takes to go fast. FWD is off the list. So are 4 cyls. Can you put one on the ragged edge & go fast, yep. But don't forget, you are on the ragged edge.

Don't overlook the fact that I'm not talking about some clown in a Mustang either. Here's one to check out. 8.80 Daily driver.

[SlowToady]

So an 8.80 daily fox body Mustang isn't "ragged edge?" Please.

I'm a Mustang fan, too, especially the Cobras, but I can't picture a stock, 03 Cobra "disappearing" to anywhere other than the rear view of a light modified 400+HP WRX STI or EVO. A lightly worked B13 or B20 (especially B20) RX7 would leave that Cobra, and then some, imo. Likely even a modded Cobra.

4 cyls off the list? You must not have seen all the 400 and 500 HP 951s. I'm reasonably sure those are "fast" by anyones standards. Except maybe Schummi and the F1 boys.

I dunno, all seems like a pointless pissing match to me. Seems everyone knows of a faster car just around the corner. I met a guy at my local McDs on cruise in night that has a Lingenfelter (sp?) TT Vette. My brother's really good friend, Raz, has a 700 something HP Cobra monster. His other buddy had (sold it) a 650HP TT 350Z. Any weekend you can go to Chicago and find street races, 600-900HP imports. But then there's Henessey 1000HP Vipers. Someones always got a faster car, and it usually falls to money, skills and planning as to why it's faster, not country of origin.

By the way, it looked like that kid in the WRX was having troubles with the gearbox, no?

[Mule]

Originally Posted by SlowToady

So an 8.80 daily fox body Mustang isn't "ragged edge?" Please.

Considerably less so than these magic 4 cyls.

I'm a Mustang fan, too, especially the Cobras, but I can't picture a stock, 03 Cobra "disappearing" to anywhere other than the rear view of a light modified 400+HP WRX STI or EVO. A lightly worked B13 or B20 (especially B20) RX7 would leave that Cobra, and then some, imo. Likely even a modded Cobra.

Then you need some new glasses. The '03 Cobra I described will drive by either car you described. BTW a 400hp WRX is not exactly, "lightly modded." Just so you are clear, the Cobra I described is well north of 600hp, at the wheels! Well over 700hp at the crank with a replacement blower, a chip & an x pipe. THAT is lightly modded!

4 cyls off the list? You must not have seen all the 400 and 500 HP 951s. I'm reasonably sure those are "fast" by anyones standards. Except maybe Schummi and the F1 boys.

They are fast. No doubt. Put similar boost on a 928 & see what happens.

I dunno, all seems like a pointless pissing match to me. Seems everyone knows of a faster car just around the corner. I met a guy at my local McDs on cruise in night that has a Lingenfelter (sp?) TT Vette. My brother's really good friend, Raz, has a 700 something HP Cobra monster. His other buddy had (sold it) a 650HP TT 350Z. Any weekend you can go to Chicago and find street races, 600-900HP imports. But then there's Henessey 1000HP Vipers. Someones always got a faster car, and it usually falls to money, skills and planning as to why it's faster, not country of origin.

My point is not "who's fastest." My point is that 4cyls don't run with V8s. Now, you can put the 4cyl on 30#s and a 300 shot, for as long as that lasts. Physics is physics. There's nothing magical about Import 4cyls. Press hard enough, they go fast. Press too hard, they blow up

By the way, it looked like that kid in the WRX was having troubles with the gearbox, no?

I think the real problem was the Mustang on the back wheels to the 330.

..

[sammyg2]

Did he have spiked hair?

[Cornpanzer]

Since you keep pounding the physics drum, one thing you are leaving out of the equation is weight. Its all about power to weight and if you can put it to the ground or not.

Using your own argumant against you, the next logical step - your precious small block mustang could never stand up against a big block anything.......Cubic inches baby....its all just physics, right? But wait.....some of those 5.0 Mustangs are faster than big block cars. How can that be????

I like 5.0 Mustangs too. There are some wicked fast 5.0's out there. But, much like the Hondas and thier fartcans, for every fast Stang one there are 10 with a tired stock motor and a pair of Flowmasters. In fact, here in the Midwest there are probably more posers per capita driving Mustangs than Hondas.

Now that I think about it, I have raced plenty of 5.0's over the years. Here is a pic of the last one. He is a local street racer with a stroker motor and some type of super-loud centrifugal blower. When we were sitting in the staging lanes, he was setting up a $500 race for later that night. Perhaps he had the same mantra as you Mule "i understand what it takes to go fast. FWD is off the list. So are 4 cyls"

[Mule]

I'm a fan of cubic inches. The green & black Mustang going 6.53 on a 10.5W has a BB Ford & 2 88's. your first statement is absolutely correct. Power, weight & grip are the key to performance.

I don't believe that every Mustang is a killer. I do believe that if you take a Mustang, GTO or similar RWD, V8 American car, NO FWD 4cyl anything, on anything like a similar level of preparation, can run with it.

Isn't there an Ohio parts Co. with some fast VWs.

[911teo]

Are we talking just straight line acceleration or around a track where you need to turn right also?

[onewhippedpuppy]

Pretty closed minded point of view Mule. Ultimately, RWD musclecars still are king in drag racing. On a road course, they are anything but. All that power is great, but worthless in a car that is inable to put it down while cornering. The IRS Mustangs do handle well, for a Mustang. There's always that caveat. Ultimately, their suspension is too simple and they are too heavy to totally compete on a road course.

On the other hand, with a few thousand in modifications and typically without even cracking the engine, an STi or Evo can hang with all but the most exotic supercars on earth. You may not like them, or want to drive them, but you should respect them.