"Illegal Aliens weren't adequately warned about fires"

[Rikao4]

I would rather have a Beer with Dan, and talk Lab's.
or as Static suggest..crank up the tunes..let the RPM flow.
Rika

[Racerbvd]

Dan, it is a fact, not fiction that crime is going up in areas where illegals hide out. How many here have had their car hit by an uninsured non-English speaking person??? I guess it is wrong to punish criminals, just keep turning your head and pretend it isn't there, meanwhile our ERs are going broke taking care of these illegals. Any one who has worked hard to build a business and wealth, but has been robbed don't tend to take a soft stance on punishment. Trespassing is illegal where posted, our family farm in upstate NY has signs saying you will be shot, they are legal and my family and the people who watch over our property mean it. I don't work my ass off just so some one can just take it away from me
We has tried being nice, it didn't work, now it is time to step it up and actually enforse the laws, that means busting those businesses who hire illegals as well as those who harbor them.








If you see a sign like this, and igore it, too bad if you get shot.


Don't want to be hated, don't break the law.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by legion

Question: What do Mexican border guards do to people sneaking in from Honduras?

They do what the U.S. doesn't do.

They have a different value system than we do.

Their govt. is FAR more corrupt than one could even dream about accusing ours of being.

We could be more like Mexico, adopt some of their policies, some of their values (which aren't ALL bad, mind you).

But we don't.

We have our own, which most Americans are rightly proud of.

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by masraum

This is pretty ridiculous. If there were 5 folks trapped and about to be burned with a fireman standing buy, I suspect that they'd be saved by the fireman no matter what language they speak. I suspect that at least a few of the firemen speak Spanish.

The issue isn't "should they get support or aid?" The issue is "was America/California/whoever, negligent in warning them about the fire." I find it very hard to believe that there was anyone in SoCal that didn't know about the fire, if there was, it probably didn't matter what language they spoke or what nationality they were. (uh, I don't think "Mexican" is a race)

The premise of the possible lawsuits is ridiculous.

That is what I am thinking... I'm no rocket scientist but it wasn't real hard to figure out where the fires were happening and not wander into the area.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by DARISC

They do what the U.S. doesn't do.

They have a different value system than we do.

Their govt. is FAR more corrupt than one could even dream about accusing ours of being.

We could be more like Mexico, adopt some of their policies, some of their values (which aren't ALL bad, mind you).

But we don't.

We have our own, which most Americans are rightly proud of.

You're making the very false assumption that we can only have the benefit of Mexico's good laws if we adopt their corruption too. It's not corrupt to vigorously enforce one's border. Mexico doesn't do everything wrong. No country does. Our laws, not our will (or lack thereof) to enforce them, should reflect our nation's values.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by legion

Question: What do Mexican border guards do to people sneaking in from Honduras?

Why does that matter? Do we really want to judge ourselves by that kind of standard?

Talk about your moral equivalence...

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

I'm SO sick of the haters here.

+1000

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by Noah930

OK, this discussion is getting a bit out of hand. Back to P-O-P's original point: is it a valid complaint (of the Hispanic illegal immigrant community) that the (US) government didn't do enough to warn and protect them during the recent wildfires? DARISC, Dan, KC911: what should the government have done to further ensure their safety and well-being? If you're the head fire dude captain of the San Diego area, should you have withdrawn some of your resources (whether it be men, fire engines, helicopters, etc.) from the actual fighting of the fires, and instead redeployed them along the border (much of it desert wilderness) to try to find people sneaking across and save them from being presumably burned to death out there? Would that have been a reasonable response? Not trying to be a hater or a jerk. Not trying to turn this into one of the typical illegal immigration rants that we have on this board every couple weeks. Just asking if it's a legitimate complaint, as presented by P-O-P in his original post.

Noah, This "discussion" - ahem, immediately got "out of hand" when Jeff called illegals or the groups that are concerned about them "F*ckers" and then dropped another F bomb. It never was posted as a legitimate request for opinions, it was POSTED as a hateful rant. It accelerated when Byron advocated in HUGE font that the solution to dealing a problem involving millions of people including children is to shoot them. Rick's more reasoned advocacy of the same solution isn't any the less pugnant to me. Let's just keep the record straight.

In my opinion, no the government shouldn't have done more to warn illegal aliens than they did - at least as far as I know. They should not have redeployed to cover wildlands where no known populations lived.

Not everyone who is illegal speaks ONLY Spanish anymore than everyone who is a legal citizen is fluent in English. For this reason it is prudent to issue warnings in the predominant languages of the area you are dealing with. French might have helped during Katrina, for example. During a life threatening catastrophy what are we trying to do; save lives or teach hard truths? I believe firefighters and rescue worker's primary job is to save human lives. Saving property comes in second place.

Finally Noah, I've never heard you be a hater or a jerk. I have had many AGREEMENTS with Rick and Byron on some issues. On illegal immigration (no, not "undocumented workers", I'm a Democrat not a PC-meister) we are far, far apart if the discussion is just a rant and not a recognition that these are living, breathing people.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by motion

Jeff, I am anti-illegal immigration, but sweet Jebus, man, these are human beings. They deserve at least as much care and consideration as anyone else, legal or not. I'm not saying dire resources should be diverted, but the thought and concern is appropriate, imho. During a disaster like this, immigration and border issues should take a place behind common decency and respect for fellow human life. Dude, you are one angry guy.

which is why you should be angry the pro-illegal immigrant folks are trying to make hay on this deal. There were illegal busted stealing stuff at the aid stations and reselling it, how is that to you?

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Well, I would! That is called MURDER and its a hell of a lot more serious than breaking an immigration law.

(I'm now waiting for the inevitable comment that I am IN FAVOR of illegal immigration)

no it is not murder, maybe manslaughter if done by a private citizen, but that would be debateable if they were coming over your fence or in your window.

Originally Posted by legion

Question: What do Mexican border guards do to people sneaking in from Honduras?

Tell them to go back or they will shoot. If they don't go back they get shot, sometimes they get shot even if they are going back

Back to the topic of this thread. It is utterly ridiculous to even talk about a suit like this, it has no basis, the plaintiffs have no standing.

The US helps others, even people we don't have contact with(like North Korea for example, a US naval vessel went to the aid of a N Korean flagged vessel under attack by Somali pirates recently).

How much is enough? We MUST secure our borders. This will hurt some poor latinos looking for a better life in this country, we all feel badly about that. Thing is, not everyone feels badly enough about it to be willing to give up America to illegal immigration.

It does not make me a racist when I say, "a large part of the healthcare crisis is due to illegal immigrants over burdening the system" or "uninsured illegal immigrants are a significant contributor to my increasing auto insurance rates." These are facts, not racist propaganda.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

You're making the very false assumption that we can only have the benefit of Mexico's good laws if we adopt their corruption too.

I CLEARLY did not say that. If you believe we should shoot em' dead at the border like Mexico does - well, get a law passed so that that's what we'll do (I don't believe we have such a law as of yet).

It's not corrupt to vigorously enforce one's border. Mexico doesn't do everything wrong. No country does.

I CLEARLY did not say that it is, it does or that any country does.

Our laws, not our will (or lack thereof) to enforce them, should reflect our nation's values.

I agree with you 100%. And I believe that our laws DO reflect our nation's
values - as agreed upon democratically, which is to say by majority rule - guided by and within the boundaries of our Constitution. If you feel that any do not (You can please some of the people.......), then by all means use your right as an American citizen to try to change or correct them.

What am I falsely assuming here?

..

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Why does that matter? Do we really want to judge ourselves by that kind of standard?

Talk about your moral equivalence...

I think the point here, which he didn't expand on, is Mexico expresses such outrage that we make ANY attempt at all to enforce our borders. They print maps on the best places to illegally cross and their second largest source of income after oil revenue is that which their people living here send back home. So it's a bit of chutzpah for Mexico to have vigorous (and IMHO admirable) border enforcement of their own, while busting our balls for doing far, far less with our southern border.

[Rick Lee]

DARISC, why then did you mention Mexico's corruption in the same post with their vigorous border enforcement? The two have nothing to do with each other. If they did, then one could also say our far less corrupt government is incapable of policing our own border. Say it ain't so! Is there a correlation there? Anyway, I don't think our gov't. is that much less corrupt than that of Mexico. It's just that we consider a lot of the stuff our gov't. does to be normal and legal, when it really is not and would make our Founding Fathers roll in their graves.

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

So it's a bit of chutzpah....

A WHOLE LOT of chutzpah! It infuriates me.

[tabs]

Govenator of NY Mark Spitzer is out of touch with reality.... he lives in a Mansion, and gets into a limo whenever he wants to go somewhere. He has all his meals, laundry, shopping done by someone else so what should he care if he screws everybody in NY. When he leaves office he gets on a plane and heads into the sunset to this vacation villa in the tropics. Someone probably whispered in his ear that it would be a good idea to give illegals drivers licenses, it would insure that they knew how to drive...and Govenator Spitzer being so out of touch with reality that his feet don't touch the ground agreed.

The guy who is left holding the bag of ***** is the poor citizen who is left behind to deal with the carnage that a fko like Spitzer leaves behind...

BUT let me clue you all into who that "poor citizen" is....ITS YOUR CHILDREN...cause its their lifestyle and opportunities that are being destroyed.... all those poor illegals are doing is dragging down every person in the USA down to their level, cause now U gotta share whats yours with them.

Your Parks, your roads, your hospitals, your schools, your social welfare services....its all somebody had to work hard for many generations to achieve. Now U have politicians willing to give it all away.

Lets take one simple foundation of the US GOVERNMENT which has made the US unique in the anals of history. Its the fact that rule of law is supposed to prevail, that the rich guy as well as the poor guy has the same standing under the law. However if you give a person who comes into your country ILLEGALLY meaning not lawfully, not in the proscribed manner a defacto legal status of giving them a drivers license. You have just kissed the RULE OF LAW Goodbye....Why obey the laws they nolonger have any meaning there are no consequences if you don't obey them...yu get a drivers license...next U vote..and can elect people that will take away what the other guy worked so hard to get.

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

How in the world is it murder to shoot people illegally entering one's sovereign territory?!?!?!

Wow! You really don't get this?

Have a chat with your missus. She may be able to help you with the concept of seeking a better life in another land.

And I sure hope she's done all the paperwork right, otherwise she's probably in mortal danger under your roof.

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Wow! You really don't get this?

Have a chat with your missus. She may be able to help you with the concept of seeking a better life in another land.

And I sure hope she's done all the paperwork right, otherwise she's probably in mortal danger under your roof.

Since my wife came here 100% legally and has never been out of status, even when her univ. screwed up some paperwork, I fail to see how she would ever be in mortal danger in my house or anywhere near a border. We got stopped by the Border Patrol in NM and they let her go. She never tried to break in anywhere. WTF are you talking about? Is wanting a better life in the US somehow an excuse for ignoring border security?

[Icemaster]

Originally Posted by Rikao4

Dan I don't hate anyone..just tired of folks telling me I'm the problem.
Rika

[DARISC]

Originally Posted by Dottore

Wow! You really don't get this?

Have a chat with your missus. She may be able to help you with the concept of seeking a better life in another land.

And I sure hope she's done all the paperwork right, otherwise she's probably in mortal danger under your roof.

HAHAHA!
Yeah, I give up. Gonna grab some lunch before my appetite is totally destroyed.

[futuresoptions]

Originally Posted by Racerbvd

Clearly you don't have a clue!! How is it racist not to want to reward some one for breaking the law??? Crime rates are going up, uninsured accidents are raising our rates, and why should those of us who worked to build our businesses reward those who are breaking the law???

Um..Dude....I was being facetious.....

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by Rick Lee

Since my wife came here 100% legally and has never been out of status, even when her univ. screwed up some paperwork,

Well just assume she didn't do her paperwork correctly and is now here illegally, on your sovereign territory.

So would you shoot her?

I am trying to point out the complete absurdity of you original statement here.