CCW holders, when would you intervene?

[jyl]

So, the discussion of the mall shooter made me wonder about this.

For those of you with CCWs, would you intervene in a shooting spree?

Let's say this situation: you are walking in your local mall, when you hear shots and people fleeing past you. You gather that somewhere up ahead there is a gunman in the mall, shooting at shoppers. As far as you know, neither your family nor anyone you know is in the mall. You are carrying whatever you usually carry, in my case a .38 J-frame with five rounds - in other words, you don't happen to be conveniently toting an AR.

What would you do? Intervene? Take cover? Flee?

(This situation is taken from an actual mall shooting in Tacome, WA.)

[HardDrive]

I also have a .38.

I'm not sure what good its going to do against someone with a rifle. You have to be damn close to get off a sure shot with the thing. Your probably only going to get 1-2 shots before he can return fire, and your chances of survival go down hill pretty fast after that.

I think my reaction would depend largely on if I had my family with me. I would be more likely to intervene if I was alone. If had my family with me, I would look for a defensible position.

[dzls rok]

i agree. you would have to be in close range and have a good shot(s). i would like to think i would react a certain way, but since i've never had someone shooting at me, i'm not sure what i would actually do.

[cstreit]

...what if you had a shotgun?

...and he was threatening to *sigh* steal a TV?

...and it was your neighbors store?

...and they were armed with a crowbar instead of a gun?

[jyl]

Then I'd call 911 and watch a TV walk away if need be.

But, back to the mall shooter scenario . . .

[alf]

poo my pants and run away like a girly mon, knocking down little girls and pregnant women on the way. Oh and grabbing a few high value but portable thangs on the way out. Then sell my story to the press for ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

Fleeing and finding cover, helping others around you that have not figured that out do the same. If BG was in my effective range (<15 feet) and is a clear threat then I'd defend myself from cover.

[Gogar]

Having a CCW doesn't make you a cop.

What if you ran towards the sound of gunfire, and the cops came in right after you and mistook you for the shooter?
"NO, I'm the GOOD guy with the gun. HE'S the bad guy with the gun. Promise!"

Or, go one further and let's say you run towards the sound of gunfire with noble thoughts. You see a guy in street clothes with a gun, pointing it around. You be the hero and nail him right in the head. WHOOPS, he was an off-duty police officer and was just about to take down the real shooter when you blew his brains out.

There's just too many ways you (the CCW guy) could make it worse than it already is, IMO.

[speeder]

It's a good question, but nearly impossible to answer with any certainty because of the old "every situation is unique, blah, blah...."

If I was armed w/ a decent gun, (the only kind I believe in and own), and had a decent chance, I'd definitely try to terminate the threat. One feasible scenario would be that I was hiding or had taken cover and the murderer was moving around looking for more victims, (their usual M.O. in psycho shootings), when he got close enough to me I would give him my little surprise.

Another scenario would be that I was far enough away to run, but had a clean shot and a full clip or two. I would try my luck and marksmanship, then run like hell if all my shots missed. This would ideally be done from cover, and even if all my shots missed I might force him to waste a lot of ammo in the fire fight. Maybe even run out. In which case I would kill him with a blunt object.

[slodave]

Where's Markus aka livi????

[HardDrive]

LOL!

Originally Posted by alf

poo my pants and run away like a girly mon, knocking down little girls and pregnant women on the way. Oh and grabbing a few high value but portable thangs on the way out. Then sell my story to the press for ONE MILLION DOLLARS.

[HardDrive]

So the moral of this thread is this: Never go to the mall with anything less than an AR-15.

[dhoward]

In a heartbeat.
Of course I have the added experience of being a pro shooter for a few years. Adreneline rush, hands, sight picture, squeeze.

Most take the course and shoot 2 or 3 times a year. Slow fire, no pressure.
Different ballgame.
Re: Speeder, I'd feel confident enough to take a long, deliberate, shot because I know my weapons.
Oh, and in times of pressure, I become an emotionless *********. Ask my wife. It pisses her off.

[red-beard]

I just took another CCW course and several situations were posed, as discussion points.

If there is an active shooter, not just someone threatening to use a firearm, you as a CCW holder have a moral obligation to do something. In the case of the mall shooting, with the fact that he was using a rifle and was sniping from cover on the 3rd floor, a CCW would have been of little use.

A concealed handgun would have been useful at Virginia Tech, but not so much in the Omaha mall.

[charleskieffner]

hey..........lets turn this around. where in the hell were the jackbooted, black BDU mall guards??

where were the undercover cops?????

where were the offduty cops always hired by malls???

are the malls i go to different?

where were the mounted posse like we have at our malls here?

and finally...........where in the hell were any CCW people??? interesting side note would be how many CCW people were in the mall when this went down???


as for me being chastised for carrying ALL THE TIME, i would have shoved my g/friend on the ground, pulled weapon, racked round , safety off, acquire target, and let the MUTHA FUCHER HAVE IT! el permanente! at the very least i could lay down suppressing fire to thwart any more shots on his part.

now heres some reality yesterday. g/friend and i leave bass pro shops. i am carrying. as we leave 2 cops outside. both of us figured a shoplifting call. as we leave parking lot , funny unmarked cars and then marked mesa/tempe/scottsdale/saltriver pima rez cops/ DPS at all the onramps/exits to 101 freeway. then we see crime scene.

bank robbed, armed bad guy goes a 100 miles an hour headon into woman and kills both!

dont know about you, but at age 50, im sick of this crap!

i didnt get drawn for elk or antelope this year, did get drawn for deer and the wolves(55 messikan grey wolves) beat us to the dinner table, but if this crap keeps up..................i just may mount a bad guy on my wall and put notches in my pistole handle.

AND I WONT THINK TWICE ABOUT IT!

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by dhoward

In a heartbeat.
Of course I have the added experience of being a pro shooter for a few years. Adreneline rush, hands, sight picture, squeeze.

Most take the course and shoot 2 or 3 times a year. Slow fire, no pressure.
Different ballgame.
Re: Speeder, I'd feel confident enough to take a long, deliberate, shot because I know my weapons.
Oh, and in times of pressure, I become an emotionless *********. Ask my wife. It pisses her off.

I'm doing my Christmas shopping at the mall closest to Dan's house.

[frogger]

I'm not so sure that carrying a concealed weapon into a mall is welcomed in most jurisdictions, though I could be wrong.

[charleskieffner]

i will not shop at such an establishment............period!

this is a joke this still continues!

oh he/shes depwessed............give 'em a pill, it will make it better!

lets see antidepressents + weapons = mayhem. no brainer there.

its a proven fact SSRI's make quite a few people very very very violent. and knowing first hand there effects from my ex..................not one person w/SSRI's should be allowed to possess a WEAPON!

you cant FLY a plane nor SCUBA DIVE and you probably shouldnt even drive let alone have a weapon. but no we will keep prescribing this crap until someone impotent gets killed !

now lets see how many copy cats pull stunts btwn now and the end of the year!

[legion]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I just took another CCW course and several situations were posed, as discussion points.

If there is an active shooter, not just someone threatening to use a firearm, you as a CCW holder have a moral obligation to do something. In the case of the mall shooting, with the fact that he was using a rifle and was sniping from cover on the 3rd floor, a CCW would have been of little use.

A concealed handgun would have been useful at Virginia Tech, but not so much in the Omaha mall.

Good points as usual red-beard.

And a further point. I think I recall that someone on another thread pointed out that CCW holders are not allowed to carry at malls in Nebraska.

[Joeaksa]

Originally Posted by red-beard

I just took another CCW course and several situations were posed, as discussion points.

If there is an active shooter, not just someone threatening to use a firearm, you as a CCW holder have a moral obligation to do something. In the case of the mall shooting, with the fact that he was using a rifle and was sniping from cover on the 3rd floor, a CCW would have been of little use.

A concealed handgun would have been useful at Virginia Tech, but not so much in the Omaha mall.

Agreed but in the Omaha situation had I been in the area of the shooter and seen the perp shooting someone, there would have been little hesitation. The next step would have been to drop him, just as he deserved.

Also agree with Dan that no matter how far away I was (within reason), if it was clear that the perp was killing innocent people that I would have tried to take him out.

Anyone can do nothing and run the other way and try to hide. America did not become the great country that it is by standing around and doing nothing. There very well may come a time when each of us is called upon to risk our safety to help someone else. Thats when you tell the men from the boys... Lets all hope that we each do the right thing and do it well.

[rcm]

Originally Posted by speeder

It's a good question, but nearly impossible to answer with any certainty because of the old "every situation is unique, blah, blah...."

If I was armed w/ a decent gun, (the only kind I believe in and own), and had a decent chance, I'd definitely try to terminate the threat. One feasible scenario would be that I was hiding or had taken cover and the murderer was moving around looking for more victims, (their usual M.O. in psycho shootings), when he got close enough to me I would give him my little surprise.

Another scenario would be that I was far enough away to run, but had a clean shot and a full clip or two. I would try my luck and marksmanship, then run like hell if all my shots missed. This would ideally be done from cover, and even if all my shots missed I might force him to waste a lot of ammo in the fire fight. Maybe even run out. In which case I would kill him with a blunt object.

Try at least to draw his attention from the random shooting, possibly letting folks escape/hide etc...Do not attempt to take hm out unless he is coming to you.

Somebody made a point about the possibility of them being an off duty officer. If he has taken the time to grab his rifle, more than likely he has grabbed his vest and badge to go with it. He will or shoulf be identifiable as an LEO.