Who will pay for the sin of murdering the unborn?

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by jluetjen

It's been a while since I've been able to agree with Porsche-O-Phile on the "Off Topic Discussions" forum, but I agree whole heartedly with him on this point. Maybe for a different reason then his though. Historically, there has never been anything that "de-Christianized" a country more effectively then making some form of Christianity the "State Religion". It happened with the Anglicans in England, The Lutherans in Sweden and the Catholics in France. Germany only slightly less so since they adopted both Catholicism and Lutheranism. I suspect that Italy hasn't had the same experience since they already have one Christian bureaucracy in the Catholic Church, so there was no reason to mingle it with the government.

On the other hand, there have been few places where Christianity has been as successful as Rome, up until Constantine. Rome was already in decline when he converted, and as expected, having the state religion being Christianity didn't save that culture. But then Jesus always maintained that his kingdom was not of this Earth, so it shouldn't be a surprise -- at least not to the Christians.
..

Well, I'm certainly no expert on it, but I just finished reading a book about the Medici era in Italy and they sure seemed to do a pretty good job of blending Christianity and politics and that was waaaaay after Constantine.

[Mule]

Like any good collector of God's money, we'll pitch it up in the air so whatever God needs, he can keep & what falls back down is ours!

[frogger]

Originally Posted by Mule

Like any good collector of God's money, we'll pitch it up in the air so whatever God needs, he can keep & what falls back down is ours!

Brilliant!

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by skipdup

And, still waiting...

Your own special brand of course !

Look, most of us have nothing against you all, except that we are sure you don't know everything, and you are sure that you know all you need to know, and are willing to share that with anyone ad infinitum.

Please go practice Christianity, and stop preaching it. Set a good example.

Help someone. For instance, I need to be left alone. Help me out, will you ?

[tonypeoni]

Trust me man, with all the libs on this forum this is the wrong place to debate any kind of moral issue. On the other hand maybe its the perfect place Yeah Ive told coworkers about all the libs on this site and I always verbatim get the same response. "On a porsche chat room"!???

[trekkor]

Please go practice Christianity, and stop preaching it.

Your comment couldn't make less sense.


I'm sure you actually know what you are talking about


KT

[skipdup]

Originally Posted by DanielDudley

Your own special brand of course !

Look, most of us have nothing against you all, except that we are sure you don't know everything, and you are sure that you know all you need to know, and are willing to share that with anyone ad infinitum.

Please go practice Christianity, and stop preaching it. Set a good example.

Help someone. For instance, I need to be left alone. Help me out, will you ?

how bizarre.

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by Mule

I'm settin' up the alter. I'm prayin' for a chance to make her happy.

Cool! Can I be an alter boy???

Originally Posted by Mule

[70SATMan]

Originally Posted by 70SATMan

Skip your problematic view is that you reference everything from your God with ZERO thought for any one elses. I'm almost positive you're not talking of Shiva but, I could be wrong. First, you interjected the word "the", implying a single entity. Strike one. Then above you use the word "our". What do you mean by "we" white man? Strike two.

The framers used the word "their" very precisely. Do you know why?

Skip I'm waiting too. Have we stopped discussing your version of the D of I then?

[skipdup]

Originally Posted by 70SATMan

Skip I'm waiting too. Have we stopped discussing your version of the D of I then?

OK. I missed that you had asked me a question.

I might have been too confused by how you know what my reference points are.

Don't pretend you know me. Don't pretend you know how religious I might or might not be. I might not be the bible thumping boogie-man you're so scared of. As such, your questions to the boogie-man don't really make much sense to me.

And no, I don't want to go any deeper into the D of I. My point was to show there is a connection between "God" and what our country was founded on. My point was to show that separation of church and state is not the same as separation of God and state. But then, all of this was in response to what others said (crushing religious beliefs when they cross over, FF were not Christians, etc, etc, etc).

To me, abortion is not a religious question (any more than murder, stealing, etc). So, to keep harping on religion is wasted on me.

Here's something to ponder... just pretend for a minute I'm not the boogie-man. Pretend I'm a somewhat normal guy. One that thought abortions was wrong (distrubing, sad, etc) long, long before he became a Christian. Just pretend, for a moment, that maybe the basis for my anti-abortion-ism has nothing to do with "religion". Now, can you imagine how a religious argument would have essentially no affect on me?

Get it???

- Skip

[svandamme]

well, it would still not be your right to impose your view onto others who don't see it your way

get it?

[Mule]

Ship, your position makes sense "hypothetically." Unfortunately, the real truth is that the fun of the mill, abortion protester is a bible quoting madman, more akin to those morons protesting at the funerals.

[livi]

Judging by the pics I believe this topic is starting to slippin nīsliding in good PPOT fashion.

[Mule]

Stupidity begets stupidity. It's a law of the universe. Keep those zygote credit payments rolling in.

[skipdup]

Originally Posted by Mule

Ship, your position makes sense "hypothetically." Unfortunately, the real truth is that the fun of the mill, abortion protester is a bible quoting madman, more akin to those morons protesting at the funerals.

In a way, you're completely and totally right.

The problem you haven't seemed to grasp is this... I don't mean to be a smartasss... but read it carefully...

You are not arguing with the average run of the mill abortion protesters. At lease, most the people that have really articulated what they believe are not "militant".

For your arguments to work, you need to go find those people and argue the way you argue with them. Not with all/most the people on PPOT.

Get it?

[skipdup]

Originally Posted by svandamme

well, it would still not be your right to impose your view onto others who don't see it your way

get it?

Actually, no. I don't get it.

Do we impose our views of murder on others? Stealing? etc???

[skipdup]

This is by no means a perfect argument I'm about to make. But, I'm wondering if it isn't, at least somewhat, related... (it may infact prove to be completely unrelated based on something I haven't yet considered)...

What if the discussion was legalizing (on a federal level) prostitution. If I were against, would I be labeled as one trying to force my religious dogma on others? Would I be labeled a religious zealot?

- Skip

[Mule]

Originally Posted by skipdup

In a way, you're completely and totally right.

The problem you haven't seemed to grasp is this... I don't mean to be a smartasss... but read it carefully...

You are not arguing with the average run of the mill abortion protesters. At lease, most the people that have really articulated what they believe are not "militant".

For your arguments to work, you need to go find those people and argue the way you argue with them. Not with all/most the people on PPOT.

Get it?

Been there, done that, got the T shirt. Not on purpose, I ended up in a confrontation with these cretins, one each, on 2 occasions. After wasting time with civility & logic, I screamed in the first one's face that we weren't involved in their festivities, he left. #2 was not quite as quick. I shoved him backwards about 10 steps & explained that his was about to be broken before he left. This was going to be no "let the pimp hand fly." This was about to be my best imitation of a Smokin Joe Frazier left hook.

I had another similar exchange with 2 moronic street preachers at a music festival in Chatt. One of them had a 7" tall coffin w/ black lights. The other had a 10" tall cross with a flashing led sign on it. This was right after Katrina. NO was still under water. One of his flashing sign messages was, "the wages of sin is death & NO got what it deserved." Without going into details, by the time I finished my short "retort" there was quite a crowd, including police, laughing at the guy.

[skipdup]

Mule- You missed my point. The creeps with the coffin and cross aren't members of this board. You're arguing as if they (or people like them) were here and part of the discussion... The argument against "them" is far different than the discussion you should have with people like me. You seem to not understand that people like me don't think the same as the people that were in your face yelling...

[Mule]

Not at all Skip. One of my best friends is a devout Christian. This guy knows the bible backwards. He doesn't prostheletize to (at) me. I have great respect for him. He lives by his beliefs as opposed to attempting to inflict them on others. And guess what, I wouldn't want him making laws based on his religion. That would absolutely rule out these sleaze bags who are trying to shift our govt in that direction.