Illegal aliens and feeding at the public trough...I'm not in Kalifornia, but....

[KaptKaos]

Originally Posted by techweenie

Joe, you may wish it otherwise, but being here without documentation is a crime lower than a misdemeanor. It's an administrative violation -- something on the order of a speeding ticket.

Fine Tech, what about the laws for employers? Let's just enforce those then. They have a little more teeth. No laws about using fake documents to get work? Fake documents to get drivers licenses? Voting illegally?

Please be serious, we all know that there is more to it than just walking across some arbitrary line in the dirt.

Pay close attention to what they are doing in Arizona.

I think that this is the biggest issue in the '08 election. I've thought so for a long time.

[speeder]

Re-entering the United States after being deported is a felony punishable by federal prison time. Identity theft is also a felony. Thousands if not millions have violated these laws. If we are going to have anarchy in the U.S., why not go all the way? I want to be able to rob banks and if caught just say, "I had to feed my family..." and get to walk. If I don't shoot anybody, what's the big crime? The deposits are FDIC insured, so no one really loses, just taxpayers who have to cover the losses. I'll even send the proceeds to Mexico, just like the illegals do, but then I'll fly down and join my loot for some serious beach-lounging and whore-******* until I die of old age. What's the problem?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by speeder

Re-entering the United States after being deported is a felony punishable by federal prison time. Identity theft is also a felony. Thousands if not millions have violated these laws. If we are going to have anarchy in the U.S., why not go all the way? I want to be able to rob banks and if caught just say, "I had to feed my family..." and get to walk. If I don't shoot anybody, what's the big crime? The deposits are FDIC insured, so no one really loses, just taxpayers who have to cover the losses. I'll even send the proceeds to Mexico, just like the illegals do, but then I'll fly down and join my loot for some serious beach-lounging and whore-******* until I die of old age. What's the problem?

Simple, it's not profitable to enforce those laws.

There's far much more $$$ to be made enforcing speeding laws and similar crap.

Add to that the fact that many departments' hands are tied thanks to the political-correctness ninnies who have rendered them unable to ask for proof of citizenship. It might offend someone. No, I'm not making this stuff up and maybe someone on a police force here can comment, but my understanding is that most PD's can't even broach the subject by policy. They have to automatically assume everyone is here legally.

Think about that one.

Here's a (maybe bad) example:

PD pulls over some dilapidated pickup truck that's all falling apart with expired plates and a busted windshield, comes up to the window and there are two occupants inside, both reeking of tequila and unable to speak a word of English. They can present no insurance and no driver's licenses and yet they HAVE TO BE assumed to be here legally and afforded all the benefits of our criminal justice system including bond, lawyers, etc. More likely than not, these guys will be back on the street in a few hours without even a phone call to INS to verify identities. They can't do it unless the information that they might be here illegally is "volunteered" by the detainees.

That's my understanding of how it works anyway. Pretty stupid and pretty obvious why so many are drawn here like flies to schit. Because the enforcement is an absolute joke.

[cab83_750]

Originally Posted by WI wide body

That is a false agrument. If those employers would pay decnt wages there most certainly would be Americans who would do the jobs. Do not give me that "U.S. citizens will not do dirty jobs" line. Pay Americans enough (or even a fair wage) and they will do damn near anything.

Does it not seem odd that virtually all of the illegal immigrants are in low paying jobs?

Again, it is not the responsibility of the government to provide low paid workers for ANY industry.

Let's be clear here. This is not my argument. I am just quoting an article from the L.A. Times magazine.

The article basically mentioned about minimum wage jobs (cooks, dishwashers, bus boys, etc.) vacated by deported workers. When these jobs became available, almost no one (legal residents) applied for the vacant jobs. Now these were 'minimum wage' jobs; by definition, minimum wage is 'competitive/fair.' So why did we not fill these positions?

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Simple, it's not profitable to enforce those laws.

There's far much more $$$ to be made enforcing speeding laws and similar crap.

Add to that the fact that many departments' hands are tied thanks to the political-correctness ninnies who have rendered them unable to ask for proof of citizenship. It might offend someone. No, I'm not making this stuff up and maybe someone on a police force here can comment, but my understanding is that most PD's can't even broach the subject by policy. They have to automatically assume everyone is here legally.

Think about that one.

Here's a (maybe bad) example:

PD pulls over some dilapidated pickup truck that's all falling apart with expired plates and a busted windshield, comes up to the window and there are two occupants inside, both reeking of tequila and unable to speak a word of English. They can present no insurance and no driver's licenses and yet they HAVE TO BE assumed to be here legally and afforded all the benefits of our criminal justice system including bond, lawyers, etc. More likely than not, these guys will be back on the street in a few hours without even a phone call to INS to verify identities. They can't do it unless the information that they might be here illegally is "volunteered" by the detainees.

That's my understanding of how it works anyway. Pretty stupid and pretty obvious why so many are drawn here like flies to schit. Because the enforcement is an absolute joke.

Because they know dumb citizens like us will pay it in a heart beat. Even if we almost couldn't affort it. I just got 2 speeding tickets by radar gun for going 12 and 14 miles over in 3 days. I had to fork out close to 800 bucks. Now there is no way I could have pay for that when I was in college. that would have broken my bank account and next semester's book cost. You now what, many college students come up with the $$ and pay for it. If you are illegal, what do you have to pay for? Nothing.

Hell, I think LAPD might just let you go when pulled over if you look like people described above and not want to deal with the paper work. I know those monkeys didn't care to nor did they advice us when these guys nailed by friend's new BMW. they said, since no one was hurt, you just need to contact your insurance. Get thing off the street, now.

[Joeaksa]

Dallas Parkland hospital started keeping records of the illegal aliens that they treated and are keeping a tab to send a bill to the Mexican govt.

See here: http://www.snopes.com/politics/immigration/parkland.asp

It will surprise you the numbers we are talking about.

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by artplumber

Maybe you're looking in the wrong ER's?

that is just what I was thinking, tech, no offense meant, but you are significantly misinformed regarding the economic impact of illegal aliens.

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

In my residency in Houston at least 50% of my patients were spanish speaking only. Most of them did not have health insurance. We never asked whether they were legal or not since it really didn't matter and there wasn't anything anyone would do about it anyway.

Not sure what percentage of those folks were illegal, but they sure availed themselves of our health care system.

+1 to this in the early 1990's anyway. I did have the husband of an illegal alien patient from central america make me these two little cement statues, cast in sand, so I guess I got paid on that one, even if the hospital did not. Still have those statues, some sort of vertility gods, very cool actually.

Originally Posted by Dueller

What do you attribute the high percentage, Wayne? Is it a function of the demographic in Cali? Is the population that high concentrated in hispanic? Are any citizens or are they lawfully admitted with work permits/green cards? Do you prefer them to non-hispanic workers or do non-hispanic citizens not want the work?

Not trying to be a smart azz...just curious why it works out that way in your neck of the woods.

Put on your PC blinders for a sec, many hispanics are Catholic and take the Pope seriously when he tells them birth control is a sin. One of the consequences of this is that they tend to have more children. If you have large numbers of a demographic group moving to an area and having more kids than the folks who are already there, it happens. Sort of like the French with their Arab immigrants.

No Joe, the numbers would not surprise me at all, but good on Parkland Hospital, wonder if that lawsuit ever gets to the SCOTUS?

If the parents do not speak English and show little interest in learning it, how involved can they be with their children's free education in an English speaking country?

[tonypeoni]

I find it amazing that agriculture companies like John Deere cant devise harvesters for the type of crops grown in southern California.

http://www.deere.com/en_US/ProductCatalog/FR/landingpage/FR_LandingPage.html

[968rz]

Originally Posted by Dueller

Do you really think the jobs most illegals undertake are so "valuable" that unemployed citizens will be clamoring for them as the economy slows?

I won’t get into it much here but this kind of thinking really gets me.
When I was a kid and wanted to make some cash we would go work on the cabbage farms clearing fields (very close to home, no need for cars and good exercise). While the work sucked it was a first job that a teenager could get, now as I watch my nieces and nephews struggle to get a first job I see only Hispanics in the fields (no facts but I would bet 75% are illegal), If a non-Hispanic tries to apply they are told no every time.
I know the farmers are in part reasonable (they could hire others) but tell me again how the illegal’s are only taking jobs that other legal’s (any color) would not do, My Nephew would like to know the truth as he sits here scanning the adds for his first job (He is still in high school and no farm will hire him, no factory wants him; Why?)

I’ve said it before; I don’t mind foreigners coming here. Just do it legally and don’t try to force your culture on the US. You came here to be in America right? Then be an American (without a hyphen).

[Rick Lee]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Go back where you came from and demonstrate the willingness to earn your citizenship and show that you respect us, our laws and our culture instead of helping yourself to the parts you want with neither consideration nor care for the impact.

I agree. But why should they? We set the worst possible example for encouraging people to obey our laws and take responsibility for their actions. We print DMV manuals in Spanish!!!! We give illegals free ER care. We tie our cops' hands. We even imprison border patrolmen for shooting a Mexican drug dealer sneaking in. We reward lawbreakers' kids with citizenship! If we only encourage the exact opposite of law and order, why shouldn't foreigers follow our lead? Idiocracy is where we're headed.

[sammyg2]

According to the California public school system, 70% of all students enrolled in the Los Angeles unified school district are listed as Hispanic.
25% of all students currently enrolled in the California public school system are listed as "English learners" ie they are fluent in speaking some other language but not in English. 1 in 4.
Over half of the California budget goes to fund public schools.

Billions of dollars are spent in California every year to educate kids who don't speak English fluently.
All of this is easily looked up and verified.

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by cab83_750

Let's be clear here. This is not my argument. I am just quoting an article from the L.A. Times magazine.

The article basically mentioned about minimum wage jobs (cooks, dishwashers, bus boys, etc.) vacated by deported workers. When these jobs became available, almost no one (legal residents) applied for the vacant jobs. Now these were 'minimum wage' jobs; by definition, minimum wage is 'competitive/fair.' So why did we not fill these positions?

I hear what you are saying. But the fact that the minimum wage jobs were not filled does not become the responsibility of our government.

As an example let me take it to+ the extreme: Suppose that a hospitial needs brain surgeons and they want to pay 10 times the minimum wage. Naturally they get no takers. Does that also become an issue for the government...or does the hospital pony up to what wage it takes to get the docs?

Same deal with the minimum wage employers. Pay the going rate (since anyone with double digit IQ knows minimum wage is poverty wage) and the willing workers will most likely be there.

Breaking the law and hiring illegal aliens is not the answer...it's an excuse.

[WI wide body]

Originally Posted by Joeaksa

Dallas Parkland hospital started keeping records of the illegal aliens that they treated and are keeping a tab to send a bill to the Mexican govt.

That is one hell of a great idea. Let every city, state , and federal agency keep track of the costs the illegal Mexicans cause them and send it to that prick Mexican president (Calderon I think) who comes to our nation and trys to tell us what to do about "our" immigration problem.

And then if he didn't do anything about it we should invade Mexico to get a "regime change" just like we did in Iraq. Mexico does far more damage to our nation than Saddam or Iraq ever did.

The previous prick, Vincente Fox fuked over Bush so often that he probably had to register as a sex offender to get in the White House. Some of the things that Bush allowed Fox to do and get away with per illegal immigration should have been grounds for impeachment.

[Dueller]

Originally Posted by sammyg2

According to the California public school system, 70% of all students enrolled in the Los Angeles unified school district are listed as Hispanic.
25% of all students currently enrolled in the California public school system are listed as "English learners" ie they are fluent in speaking some other language but not in English. 1 in 4.
Over half of the California budget goes to fund public schools.

Billions of dollars are spent in California every year to educate kids who don't speak English fluently.
All of this is easily looked up and verified.

I did look up the California budget and was suprised...not 50% of state funds but damn close: $48B on K-12 and another $15B in college funding out of a total $142B state budget (does not include federal contributions). So its at least 33 % (K-12) TO 45% (k-12 + cOLLEGE).

But what your example does not address is illegals...I'm sure some portion of ESL/hispanic students are undocumented but is there any info exactly what percentage? Is it not plausible that some of them must be here legally or ...shocker....are actually citizens? If they don't learn to speak english in the public schools where do you propose they do learn. And if you say "in the home" then why can't we say algebra or chemistry should be taught in the home?

Don't get me wrong...no doubt illegals working under the table have an adverse economic impact in our country...whetrher unpaid taxes or payments going to Mexico or social service costs. But so does the U.S. citizen contractor who works under the table. Let's face it...there is a huge underground economy amongst our lilly white citizenry.

While we have a quickly groing Hispanic community in the deep south, I understand it does not pose the problems you are facing in the far west (yet?). Its just my observation that I don't see the drain on resources/social services in our region...may be there but I don't see it.

And as far as the anecdotal incidents of insurd illegals running away from accident scenes, happens everyday with uninsured, judgment proof citizens.

I wholeheartedly agree that issue of illegal workers/immigrants needs to be addressed but there is quite a bit of hypocrisy when big business complains of the social cost but continues to make profits by using them as indentured servants. Case in point: a large company with poilitical ties that had contracts to do road work for the state was busted for having a workforce largely compromised of undocumented workers.

Oh well....

[Wickd89]

Originally Posted by Dueller

...do live in an agrarian state where there are significant numbers of migrant Hispanic workers, most of whom are likely undocumented (how's that for PC?). And in my work I come across a number of them. But for the life of me, I don't see them as availing themselves of social services. Despite what the politicians and pundits claim, my experience has been that they prefer to fly under the radar and avoid "Los Federales" at all costs.

And while standing in line at the grocery store I've never seen anyone of hispanic descent using food stamps. I don't see them in emergency rooms. And I don't see them panhandling on street corners. They quietly go about their busines and seem to be a hardworking lot.

I'm not condoning their illegal status, but those I've seen don't appear to be on the dole.

I agree. The problem is the magnitude of the group. A million OK, 40 million equals 15 small European states combined.

Most just do the gardening, clean our cars and homes, or even build our houses for us (ask any rich contractor who illegally hires them and does not claim it).

When you go into a poor neighborhood and see 100% hispanic in the schools, you will know the situation. Sad at so many levels.

[PatrickB]

Another addition...

Approximately 30,000 illegal aliens are housed in State Prison for committing serious crimes on American soil (not for immigration issues) at a cost of roughly $30k per year per inmate... Do the math people, and tell me this doesn't have an effect on the State Budget...
This is just to house them... One must also consider their free ride through the justice system, free public defender, court trial etc... Also, the time and money spent by police responding to, investigating, and apprehending said criminals.