What would Jesus think about the Pope's Attire? - Page 3

72doug2,2S · 72doug2,2S's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Babbling the mystical mumbo jumbo again, Doug? I thought this was about clothing.

Jesus would not care about his clothes, unless the Pope was committing a sin like pride.

sammyg2 · 04-18-2008, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

I understand the atheists sitting in judgement, but I though that believers were supposed to leave that to the guy upstairs...

.

The "guy upstairs" has already passed judgement on priests covetting wealth, lavish cothes, gold, etc.
It is in the bible, spoken by God's son which is the same as god saying it.
His ridicule of their greed and the fact that Jesus was a threat to their money-making machine was part of the reason they had him put to death.

Jim Richards · 04-18-2008, 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 72doug2,2S

Jesus would not care about his clothes, unless the Pope was committing a sin like pride.

D'uh! You just answered your own post!

72doug2,2S · 72doug2,2S's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by sammyg2

The "guy upstairs" has already passed judgement on priests covetting wealth, lavish cothes, gold, etc.
It is in the bible, spoken by God's son which is the same as god saying it.
His ridicule of their greed and the fact that Jesus was a threat to their money-making machine was part of the reason they had him put to death.

A rebuke for sure, I'm not sure that qualifies as judgment like Nostatic is referring to.

72doug2,2S · 72doug2,2S's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

D'uh! You just answered your own post!

Duh Eh? Are you in management somewhere? What do you mean I answered my own post?

nostatic · nostatic's Garage

well its a good thing some of you guys have the *right* interpretations of the bible and are living the one true faith. Onward soldier!

Jim Richards · 06:45 AM

IROC · IROC's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

well its a good thing some of you guys have the *right* interpretations of the bible and are living the one true faith. Onward soldier!

I still think that the ultimate thread for displaying disrespect for your fellow man would be to have a bunch of Christians duke it out to decide who's "right" and who has the "absolute truth". I'd get out the proverbial bag of popcorn for that one.

Jeff Higgins · 04-18-2008, 06:59 AM

At least he's not wearing a grille or something.

The Gaijin · 04-18-2008, 07:00 AM

I am not Catholic. But this Pope is talking about some important ideas. For this I give him great credit.

"Unless the West believes again in the Jewish and Christian values that underpin its culture and politics, the world is in for a 21st century that could even surpass the 20th century in horrors.

So the stakes are very high, and Benedict knows it. His speech at Regensburg in 2006 sent shock waves through the Muslim world: not just because the pope quoted a medieval Byzantine emperor insulting Mohammed, but because he put his finger on Islam’s most vulnerable point. If God is above reason, then men may invoke God to justify the irrational. And that is exactly what Islamist terrorists and the imams who brainwash them do.

Benedict showed how the Jews and Christians incorporated the rationalism of Greek thought into the heart of their faiths, but Islam turned its back on the legacy of the ancient world. From this divergence, much blood has flowed. If there is to be a lasting rapprochement between Islam and the West, it must be on the basis of reason and faith finding a new modus vivendi.

If the West is to survive, however, it must rediscover the spiritual sources of its own civilization. Benedict knows how hard it has become, in a culture where secularism is aggressively seeking to exclude religion from the public square, for the still small voice to be heard at all..."

http://www.nysun.com/editorials/happy-be-america

dennis in se pa · dennis in se pa's Garage

"this Pope is talking about some important ideas"

OK, accepted.

But who is going to take him seriously if he dresses as he does?

If it is about showmanship, pomp and circumstance, well OK, but that is not found in the bible, except in disdain.

RKC · 07:42 AM

I'm from a mixed Jewish/Presbyterian heritage and married to a Catholic. And no offense is intended. But "The West" was started and created by......ummm......Pagans - Greeks and Romans.

To say that it is Judeo/Christian is partially true today. But only partially. And I don't see the influence of Judeo/Christian values until the history of the West was approx. 1/3 underway. So the founding of the West was not upon those values.

It CAN be fairly argued that Western success was because of the religious additions of Judeo/Christian values on top of the Pagan roots. After all - Judeo/Christian beliefs took the lead in the overthrow of slavery and Communism and many other troubling things.

Those victories ought to stand on their own as proof of the value of Judeo/Christian virtues. It seems unnecessary to go further and overstate the case.

But it can also be fairly argued that during the times when Judeo/Christian leadership was at its highest power, things weren't so grand (the 1,000 years of the Dark Ages).

onewhippedpuppy · 04-18-2008, 08:09 AM

Dennis, you're talking about thousands of years worth of tradition and symbolism. Should he toss the traditional garb and don an Armani suit because YOU don't agree with his view of fashion? Maybe sweats and a t-shirt, or jeans halfway down his ass (to appeal to the youth).

dtw · 04-18-2008, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

well its a good thing some of you guys have the *right* interpretations of the bible and are living the one true faith. Onward soldier!

Todd - I'd like to thank you for your thoughtful and respectful input on this thread. Well said - I really appreciated your earlier post, even if the cynic in me failed to believe it would germinate any meaningful discussion.

BRPORSCHE · 04-18-2008, 08:18 AM

Would you mess with the Swiss gaurd? They were dresses too.

dennis in se pa · dennis in se pa's Garage

"don an Armani suit "
That would be almost as bad. Most of you get it, a few of you don't.

MRM · 04-18-2008, 08:27 AM

I am not sure Jesus would be upset with the Pope. As a matter of fact, I am sure that He would be upset with us discussing what He thinks. He told us to leave that sort of thing to Him.

The contrary view is that Jesus allowed Mary to wash his feet with expensive oil that could have been spent on the poor. Jesus said the poor will always be with us but having the living God to honor on earth is a temporary thing.

The Pope is the head of the Catholic Church and to that denomonation the Pope is the face of God on earth. The hat, the robes, even the red shoes all have a symbolic meaning. Actually, the clothes this Pope wears are more traditional than what Pope John Paul wore. That appears to be a deliberate as a subtle reminder that we need to return to the faith in the midst of a world growing more complex and modern.

I think it matters how and why the Pope wears the clothes he does. If he does it humbly and with the purpose of honoring God on earth, then he should do so. Us Methodists don't have a person who personifies our faith, but if we did, that would be my position. If he wears fancy clothes as a symbol of his personal power and access to great wealth, then I have a problem with it. Whether I am right in my theology doesn't matter because the One who decides in the end told me to leave the judging to him.

72doug2,2S · 72doug2,2S's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRM

I am not sure Jesus would be upset with the Pope. As a matter of fact, I am sure that He would be upset with us discussing what He thinks. He told us to leave that sort of thing to Him.

The contrary view is that Jesus allowed Mary to wash his feet with expensive oil that could have been spent on the poor. Jesus said the poor will always be with us but having the living God to honor on earth is a temporary thing.

The Pope is the head of the Catholic Church and to that denomonation the Pope is the face of God on earth. The hat, the robes, even the red shoes all have a symbolic meaning. Actually, the clothes this Pope wears are more traditional than what Pope John Paul wore. That appears to be a deliberate as a subtle reminder that we need to return to the faith in the midst of a world growing more complex and modern.

I think it matters how and why the Pope wears the clothes he does. If he does it humbly and with the purpose of honoring God on earth, then he should do so. Us Methodists don't have a person who personifies our faith, but if we did, that would be my position. If he wears fancy clothes as a symbol of his personal power and access to great wealth, then I have a problem with it. Whether I am right in my theology doesn't matter because the One who decides in the end told me to leave the judging to him.

+1 not the methodist thing, but everything else.

kstar · 04-18-2008, 08:41 AM

Admittedly, I am ignorant re traditional Pope garb. This hat received a lot of attention in the press and I was curious if it was perhaps a traditional accessory pulled from history?

Best,

Kurt

The Gaijin · 04-18-2008, 08:58 AM

That would be a Santa's hat. Celebrating Christmas has a long tradition in Europe and was used to co-opt a pagan holiday by celebrating the birth of Christ at about the same time. Wait til next Decemebr for a long boring thread repeating the details..

Much more interesting is that this Pope was in the German Army and POW of the American's at the end of WWII.