Do 'ghosts' exist?

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by IROC

What's the "other side"? Australia? I'd like to connect with that.

Mike, I think you're on to something.

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by IROC

What's the "other side"? Australia? I'd like to connect with that.

Yea, Australia has the hottest chicks.

[kstar]

"Break on through to the other side . . . "

Was Morrison a cat fancier? If so, the case grows stronger!

[Dan in Pasadena]

You know what? It MAY just be that animals (ESPECIALLY friggin cats!) are schitzy creatures or it may be they are more attuned to things like earth tremors or changes in barometric pressure indicating weather changes. I highly doubt they sense "ghosts". Sorry, its not nearly as mystical as you may want to believe.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Not me, Ronnie. This ghost stuff is a hoot. Any of the ghost believers ever get probed by aliens?

So its your opinion what I saw when I was 8 years old, a Demon not a ghost, was my imagination? Was it the imagination of the 5 kids with me? Was it the imagination of the kids father, myself and various neighbors that stooped down to look at it in the kids basement?

I do not believe in ghosts, I do however believe if you screw with evil, like demons, Satan, and the like you are asking for trouble.

Of course this would mean you believe in God so if you do not believe in God I guess you call it a ghost.

[Jim Richards]

Yes. It was not a demon or a ghost. It was also not the tooth fairy or the Easter Bunny. Sorry Jim. It wasn't Sasquatch either.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

So its your opinion what I saw when I was 8 years old, a Demon not a ghost, was my imagination? Was it the imagination of the 5 kids with me? Was it the imagination of the kids father, myself and various neighbors that stooped down to look at it in the kids basement?

I believe that you believe you saw something. Was that something a "ghost"? Or a "demon"? Or a "spirit"? Who knows? People see things all the time and are convinced that what they've seen is real. Sometimes it's not or sometimes is not what they thought it was.

My four-year old daughter swears that she saw a dinosaur in her room. A living, breathing, dinosaur. Scared her to death and led to her sleeping on the couch for about two months. Do I believe that she believes she saw it? Absolutely. Do I think there's a dinosaur in her room? No.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

You know what? It MAY just be that animals (ESPECIALLY friggin cats!) are schitzy creatures or it may be they are more attuned to things like earth tremors or changes in barometric pressure indicating weather changes. I highly doubt they sense "ghosts". Sorry, its not nearly as mystical as you may want to believe.

I think they "see" something.

Humans are capable of seeing a very minute part of the spectrum.

I think we only see what we need to see to navigate our environment.

There is stuff, microwaves, xrays etc.. surrounding us all the time. Just because we are not capable of seeing it does not mean it does not exist.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

I think they "see" something.

Humans are capable of seeing a very minute part of the spectrum.

I think we only see what we need to see to navigate our environment.

There is stuff, microwaves, xrays etc.. surrounding us all the time. Just because we are not capable of seeing it does not mean it does not exist.

But we do have ways (instruments, detectors, etc) of "seeing" pretty much every part of the spectrum. Why have none of these devices ever picked up whatever your cat is "seeing"?

[dad911]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

Not me, Ronnie. This ghost stuff is a hoot. Any of the ghost believers ever get probed by aliens?

LOL. Aliens, I would believe before ghosts. Simple science. We're born, spend a few years alive, then die.

Aliens, on the other hand, with an infinite number of solar systems, I would not be surprised if there is life somewhere else.

On the other hand, no one can explain the glowing headstone in the cemetery in my town......

[trekkor]

So many people are in for such a surprise.


KT

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by trekkor

So many people are in for such a surprise.


KT

Boo!

[IROC]

Originally Posted by trekkor

So many people are in for such a surprise.


KT

You keep forgetting the "IMHO" at the end of your posts...

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by IROC

But we do have ways (instruments, detectors, etc) of "seeing" pretty much every part of the spectrum. Why have none of these devices ever picked up whatever your cat is "seeing"?

Yes we do. And we know for a fact that they can detect everything that they detect.

Let's take gravity. Did it exist before Newtons 3rd law?

[IROC]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Yes we do. And we know for a fact that they can detect everything that they detect.

Let's take gravity. Did it exist before Newtons 3rd law?

I think you're wandering off the subject. You claimed (implied?) that your cat can "see" things that humans cannot see because their eyesight is better than ours. My point was that, as humans, we are not constrained by the limitations of our eyes when it comes to "seeing" things and that whatever part of the electromagnetic spectrum a cat can see, we can "see" it also. When we "look", we don't "see" anything unusual.

What exactly is your cat seeing?

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by IROC

I believe that you believe you saw something. Was that something a "ghost"? Or a "demon"? Or a "spirit"? Who knows? People see things all the time and are convinced that what they've seen is real. Sometimes it's not or sometimes is not what they thought it was.

My four-year old daughter swears that she saw a dinosaur in her room. A living, breathing, dinosaur. Scared her to death and led to her sleeping on the couch for about two months. Do I believe that she believes she saw it? Absolutely. Do I think there's a dinosaur in her room? No.

I have has those scares as well, monsters in my room, I had Frankenstein in my doorway once blocking me from running to mommy and daddy. I was hyperactive growing up at a time when no one understood it my mind was powerful.

I would have dismissed this instance as well as another one of my imagination events if it had not been for the 12 or more people reacting to it in the same manner.

I know what I saw it was clear as day and I do not think it was a ghost. 12 other people saw it as well, but I guess we all "thought" we saw something and it was not really there.

But this boils down to believing in God, if you do not then its a ghost and its oogey boogey stuff to laugh at, if you do believe in God and then you would understand that this is most likely demons messing with people.

[Jim Richards]

There was no ghost. What you saw was swamp gas from a weather balloon was trapped in a thermal pocket and reflected the light from Venus.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

But this boils down to believing in God, if you do not then its a ghost and its oogey boogey stuff to laugh at, if you do believe in God and then you would understand that this is most likely demons messing with people.

So you believe that these "experiences" that people have all over the world are caused by demons? Why do demons want to "mess with people"?

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

You know what? It MAY just be that animals (ESPECIALLY friggin cats!) are schitzy creatures or it may be they are more attuned to things like earth tremors or changes in barometric pressure indicating weather changes. I highly doubt they sense "ghosts". Sorry, its not nearly as mystical as you may want to believe.

I think this is quite likely.

The point is that we mystify that which we don't understand. For what it's worth, I kind of like the mysticism. It makes things interesting. But by the same token I think it's silly to see some strange behavior on the part of animals and automatically make the HUGE leap to describe it by saying "it's the spirits of the dead!" Sort of like seeing an unexplained light in the sky (might be a reflection, an airplane, a bird, whatever) and automatically assuming that it's alien lifeforms from across the galaxy.

That's a heck of a leap in both cases. . .

Do I believe in "ghosts"? Sure, if one takes "ghost" to mean "something we don't understand". Not necessarily if one takes "ghost" to mean "spirit of the dead". That's a pretty extraordinary claim and such claims require extraordinary evidence.

FWIW cats have exceptional eyesight, smell and hearing - way beyond what we're capable of. They may have other sensory awarenesses we don't even know about too. So it's likely that when they act strangely, they're just perceiving something beyond our capabilities that's very real, but what it is. . . who knows? I imagine you might be able to partially test this with the right equipment though.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by IROC

I think you're wandering off the subject. You claimed (implied?) that your cat can "see" things that humans cannot see because their eyesight is better than ours. My point was that, as humans, we are not constrained by the limitations of our eyes when it comes to "seeing" things and that whatever part of the electromagnetic spectrum a cat can see, we can "see" it also. When we "look", we don't "see" anything unusual.

What exactly is your cat seeing?

I did not imply that they can see things that we can not due to better eyesight.

I implied that they can see things that we can not. Maybe a better word would have been "sense" things that we can not.

By what vehicle or mechanism I don't know.

My point with the visible spectrum and gravity is that there are things that we know exist but to the naked "senses" they do not.

If you only look for what you already know you can find then that is all you will ever find.