Do 'ghosts' exist?

[IROC]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

If you only look for what you already know you can find then that is all you will ever find.

That sounds frighteningly close to "some things have to be believed to be seen".

I understand your point, though. I actually find this stuff very interesting. I just approach it from the skeptical side. I still enjoy it, though.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

I think this is quite likely.

The point is that we mystify that which we don't understand. For what it's worth, I kind of like the mysticism. It makes things interesting. But by the same token I think it's silly to see some strange behavior on the part of animals and automatically make the HUGE leap to describe it by saying "it's the spirits of the dead!"

I totally agree that we have a need to mystify what we don't understand. We feel we MUST assign these things greater value. I guess its sort of our arrogance that if we don't understand it, it must be "greater" than our intellect therefore it has to be mystical or not of this world. "Ghosts" really are a neat idea, I just don't believe the spirits of the dead "visit us' or are "not at rest". YMMV.

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

FWIW cats have exceptional eyesight, smell and hearing - way beyond what we're capable of. They may have other sensory awarenesses we don't even know about too....

I've read that a dogs sense of smell is more akin to a human's sight in terms of its ability to differentiate nuances. Now, that may be accurate or it may be just another example of human's need to explain or quantify something that is essentially unquantifiable as none of us has ever "smelled" as a dog can smell. I'd certainly agree that bats and (differently) porpoises have what we liken to sonar. So perhaps cats and dogs have their own subtle "senses' we cannot relate to.

I just think we LOVE to get "all afire" over things we want to believe that are ridiculous. By the way, add the "Boggy Creek Monster" to my previous list of mystical creatures stalking us.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by IROC

So you believe that these "experiences" that people have all over the world are caused by demons? Why do demons want to "mess with people"?

Because they can.

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

Because they can.

I'm glad they don't mess with me.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

Because they can.

This thread is morphing.

"Because they can" is one of life's mysteries solved.

When you finally and truly "get" that things/people only "mess with you" because you let them, you have overcome one of life's big problems. Nothing has power over you unless you let it.

Except your wife of course!

[IROC]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

When you finally and truly "get" that things/people only "mess with you" because you let them, you have overcome one of life's big problems. Nothing has power over you unless you let it.

Excellent point.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by IROC

I'm glad they don't mess with me.

+1

I don't want anything to do with them. Buying a Ouija Board IMHO is looking for trouble. I am still amazed it is sold in the toy stores along side Risk.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

This thread is morphing.

"Because they can" is one of life's mysteries solved.

When you finally and truly "get" that things/people only "mess with you" because you let them, you have overcome one of life's big problems. Nothing has power over you unless you let it.

Except your wife of course!

Funny I am reading a book about this, thinks like getting mad at traffic, or a traffic light that gets you every day, things you cannot control.

The book is dealing with raising children but first deals with you as a person. Very interesting read.

[madmmac]

My wife has been an antique collector for over 35 years. About 20 years ago she bought an old 1860's-70's hall mirror with hat racks on it.

Shortly after buying it, I would be watching TV around 930-1030 pm and I would get a strong perfume odor. The mirror was hung right beside my recliner in the TV room. At that time we had no kids and my wifes job during that time almost guaranteed that she was almost always in bed at 900 pm. This happened pretty much every night after we purchased the mirror.

After a few times of the smell happening, I went up and woke my wife to come into the room and take a whiff. I did this a few times and everytime we came back down together, the perfume smell was gone. She kind of thought I was a bit whack.

Finally, I just stayed in my chair and called my wife on the phone the next time when it happened. The wife walked down and she could smell the heavy scent of the perfume. This was the only time that she ever smelled it. I was only partially whack.

The only thing that had changed recently in the house was the purchase of that mirror. I felt like an idiot, but I said to the mirror that everything was OK and you are more than welcome in our home.

The perfume smell never occurred again.

[Dan in Pasadena]

Jim, Interesting. What's the book title?

My Dad was a "fume and scream" type. He gave himself a four packs a day smoking habit which resulted in 20 years of heart attacks and minor stroke. I watched it all from age 15 to 35. Oh, and he passed it on to me!

For the longest time (and yes, still occasionally) I get ALL PISSED OFF at something, someone. Then I realize, "F this. Life really is short. Who the hell needs this?" I force myself to not give a rip. Its water over fire, a giant Tums tablet, a glass of milk over heartburn.

Honestly? It makes me feel powerful that I don't let things get to me much anymore. At age 50 I went to HeartcheckAmerica and had a full body scan. No, none, zero plaque in my arteries. Granted, I got my mom's genes but still my outlook probably has something to do with it.

[Jims5543]

Originally Posted by Dan in Pasadena

Jim, Interesting. What's the book title?

My Dad was a "fume and scream" type. He gave himself a four packs a day smoking habit which resulted in 20 years of heart attacks and minor stroke. I watched it all from age 15 to 35. Oh, and he passed it on to me!

For the longest time (and yes, still occasionally) I get ALL PISSED OFF at something, someone. Then I realize, "F this. Life really is short. Who the hell needs this?" I force myself to not give a rip. Its water over fire, a giant Tums tablet, a glass of milk over heartburn.

Honestly? It makes me feel powerful that I don't let things get to me much anymore. At age 50 I went to HeartcheckAmerica and had a full body scan. No, none, zero plaque in my arteries. Granted, I got my mom's genes but still my outlook probably has something to do with it.

One is called Boys Adrift.

http://www.boysadrift.com/

The other is 7 Habits of a Peaceful Parent.

http://www.rpinet.com/products/shpp.html

I too grew up in a very difficult home where a severe beating was the answer for everything with a healthy dose of verbal abuse as well, its messed me up pretty bad too, I do not want to be like my father so instead when conflict comes with the children I turn and run in order not to explode like he did. It leaves me poor wife to be the only disciplinarian in the house.

We attended a workshop at my younger sons Montessori school based on the second book, it was very helpful, especially when your in a room of parents struggling like you do.



/thread hijack

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Originally Posted by Jim Cesiro

+1

I don't want anything to do with them. Buying a Ouija Board IMHO is looking for trouble. I am still amazed it is sold in the toy stores along side Risk.

I've never been able to get one of those damn things to work. Gyp!

[scottmandue]

My two cents.

In my fifty one years on the planet I have never seen anything that I couldn't explain away.

My brother and a friend of mine have claimed to have seen odd things in what is now my front house. I lived in that front house for about four years while I finished the back house I now live in... never saw anything while I was living there.

I have raise a few generation of cats, never seen the spit or attack anything that was not there... however on a few occasions I have seen them watch (stare and move there head) things move across the room that are not there... especially freaky when they do it in unison. To allow myself to sleep at night I tell myself what others here have said "they are highly sensitive animals with a much better developed sense of sight and hearing."
but boy when it happens and I am looking very hard where they are looking it is guaranteed to give you goose bumps.

I also know several very intelligent and very sober people that swear they have seen things move in houses they have lived in and because of their credibility I would have to believe they saw something.

I had a friend in high school and I used to sleep over at his house, there was an old cemetery a few blocks from his house, we would sneak out and kick back there until after midnight but never saw anything.

The Queen Mary is supposed to be haunted... I would like to book a room there and check it out... particularly on Halloween... but so far all my friends are too chicken to give it a try.

Because of my belief system I would side with Trek and Jim with this one but that is just MHO.
YMMV

[Porsche-O-Phile]

Agree with the "in unison" thing. Two of my cats are related (mother & son). I've seen this a couple of times and yes, it's creepy as hell. Although like you I just think "I wonder what they're picking up on". Still, it kinda' sends a chill down your spine a little.

I keep meaning to do that Queen Mary ghost ship thing around Halloween time but either don't have the time or just flat-out forget about it each year. I'll try to remember this year. I ain't afraid to stay on there at Halloween - it'd probably be kinda' cool. For added measure of "supernatural activity detection" I suppose I could bring the cats along. . .

Ever watch "Ghost Hunters" on SciFi? That show is a crack-up. Those dudes take themselves way too seriously and jump to way too many conclusions under the guise of trying to be objective. It's quite funny.

[Seric]

Ether plane, dude. I can't wait to rock-out and be on the other side of the galaxy in an instant to view vast worlds as cosmic dust. Well, I can wait for umm, 50 years or so or my wife would be pissed.

[kstar]

There are much cooler, IMO, things in reality than ghosts, spirits and mystical "stuff".

How about Quantum entanglement? Now that is truly freaky.

Quantum entanglement is a quantum mechanical phenomenon in which the quantum states of two or more objects are linked together so that one object cannot be adequately described without full mention of its counterpart — even though the individual objects may be spatially separated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement

----------------------

As Sagan once wrote, in one of my favorite books:

"We've arranged a global civilization in which most crucial elements profoundly depend on science and technology. We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces... I worry that, especially as the Millennium edges nearer, pseudoscience and superstition will seem year by year more tempting, the siren song of unreason more sonorous and attractive. Where have we heard it before? Whenever our ethnic or national prejudices are aroused, in times of scarcity, during challenges to national self-esteem or nerve, when we agonize about our diminished cosmic place and purpose, or when fanaticism is bubbling up around us - then, habits of thought familiar from ages past reach for the controls. The candle flame gutters. Its little pool of light trembles. Darkness gathers. The demons begin to stir."

From: The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark

[kach22i]

Five pages of my own story:
Dark Shadow and Ripple of Light; Ball Lightning or My own Ghost Tale?
Dark Shadow and Ripple of Light; Ball Lightning or My own Ghost Tale?

[the]

And another actual picture of a ghost, caught on camera (center of picture, near the windows):

http://www.martectx.de/whatswrong.swf

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

Agree with the "in unison" thing. Two of my cats are related (mother & son). I've seen this a couple of times and yes, it's creepy as hell. Although like you I just think "I wonder what they're picking up on". Still, it kinda' sends a chill down your spine a little.

I keep meaning to do that Queen Mary ghost ship thing around Halloween time but either don't have the time or just flat-out forget about it each year. I'll try to remember this year. I ain't afraid to stay on there at Halloween - it'd probably be kinda' cool. For added measure of "supernatural activity detection" I suppose I could bring the cats along. . .

Ever watch "Ghost Hunters" on SciFi? That show is a crack-up. Those dudes take themselves way too seriously and jump to way too many conclusions under the guise of trying to be objective. It's quite funny.

I have tried to watch "Ghost Hunters" but they are so over the top it is hard to take them seriously.

How about PPOT Halloween party at the Queen Mary?


Only problem with that is I am sure there are so many pranksters running around the ship on Halloween it would be hard take anything you saw or heard seriously.

My friend (the same one mentioned above who claims to have seen things in my front house) worked at the Queen as a waiter for many year... on slow nights we would go down to the lower closed off decks... it was creepy but no more creepy than walking around any large empty building at night in the dark. He has lots of stories about seeing things on the ship... but he has lots of stories.

[scottmandue]

And I just remembered.... same friend, we were traveling with his wife and some other friends. We decide to stop at the Winchester house, his wife took some pictures.

One of the pictures is a is a dazzling light dancing on the wall.

He claims we were taking the tour and walked past an area and were told not to go in there. His wife stuck the camera over or around the barrier and snapped the shot.

Now with all the beveled glass, mirrors, stained glass, skylights in that building I have a hard time not thinking it is just reflected sunlight.

But it does look weird.

And I must say I do get a definite vibe off of some places... the Winchester house is definitely one of them.
Zion canyon gave me a weird feeling too, one of the most beautiful places on earth and I plan on going back some day but had a very strange feeling... I hear the native people would not sleep in the canyon.