Do we need change?

[dtw]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

there are 2 kinds of voters in this country. ones who look at the last 8 years and like what they see. they are for:

corporate socialism at the expense of the middle class

weaker allied relationships around the world

over-stretched military

borrowing beyond our means to keep our economy afloat, our children and their children will pay it back, no worries

the weakest economy seen since the Great Depression

continued dependence on non-renewable energy sources

etc.

and those that want more for America.

There are two types of people in this world: those that divide people into two groups, and those who don't.

I completely disagree with your caricature. You need to lay off the blogs/innertoobz/radio/TV and go out and talk to some real human beings. I don't think you're going to find the Republican you painted above. Nice rhetoric, though.

Or it could just be the bleach fumes getting to you.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by dtw

There are two types of people in this world: those that divide people into two groups, and those who don't.

I completely disagree with your caricature. You need to lay off the blogs/innertoobz/radio/TV and go out and talk to some real human beings. I don't think you're going to find the Republican you painted above. Nice rhetoric, though.

Or it could just be the bleach fumes getting to you.

no it's detagging a few thousand pair of pants so they can go to garment dye.

I take a break after each box and waste my 5 minutes here.

[dtw]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

no it's detagging a few thousand pair of pants so they can go to garment dye.

I take a break after each box and waste my 5 minutes here.

When you do eventually sub all this work out, you need to make sure the sweatshop doesn't have internet access....

[nostatic]

So I guess the choice is 4 years of no change and nothing getting accomplished under McCain (since I don't see any support of his "ideas", but rather "he's not Obama"), or 4 years of a puppet controlled by Pelosi and Reid driving us down the drain of socialism and killing the country.

Seems both paths kill the country...

[The Gaijin]

#1 - barry o's plans are not all on the web-site. just do the math - who is going to pay for all this?
#2 - sarkosy and merkel have already politely declined.
#3 - mccain sounds like the one who will respond to events and be flexible.
#4 - democrates borrow for everything as well. look at the state governments of massachusetts and new york. coming off the rails now - huge slow motion train wrecks..
#5 - not enough of the "wealthy" to go around. the target will move to high wage earners in high income states. more wealth transfer - and at the expense of those who have supported him the most from the beginning.
#6 - T.Boone is stupid like a fox. And us poor taxpayers are the hens. His money will "pay" for the wind farm scam - but our tax dollars will pay for the "tax breaks" and other sweetners that will make him nice profits..

[Dottore]

Originally Posted by tobster1911

I'd like a side of Hope and Change with that....

OK. But that'll be extra.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by The Gaijin

#1 - barry o's plans are not all on the web-site. just do the math - who is going to pay for all this?

see my first post. I have the same questions. The problem is that McCain has plans that have no obvious funding as well. They both are blowing smoke up our skirts.

Which plans are not on the website? There already is way too much there to pay for...

[tobster1911]

Originally Posted by nostatic

And of course the same can't be said about the right..."anyone but a democrat, especially Osambama..."

There are a lot of details here - doubt very many have bothered to read them. And that goes for the left and the right.

http://www.barackobama.com/issues/

I agree with some of what he says, disagree with other parts, and wonder how he's going to pay for this. I come to pretty much the same conclusion when I read McCain's (less detailed) stances. For me the thing that tips the scales is that I think Obama can work the system and get some consensus here and there. Perhaps more importantly, he seems to be able to inspire people - McCain is a snooze. This country is capable of great things, but not with an apathetic population.

I previously looked at both of their official sites and here is what stands out to me.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

1. The order of the issues.
Obama (1) Civil Rights (2) Defense (3) Disability (4) Economy
McCain (1) Economy (2) Energy (3) Security (4) Health Care

Yes I realize that Obama is in alphabetical order. McCain's seem to be in order of priority. So how do I know which issues are highest in Obama's eyes? I personally think the order of McCain's issues is more correct.

2. Obama's "Blueprint for America" has a large (IMO) focus on unionizing. This is not surprising per say but I work for a company that is dealing with potential unionization. I can say for SURE that it would kill this company. It is an international semiconductor company that is struggling to turn around. Enlarge this to the national level and I don't see anything good for the economy...

3. The biggest problem I see is the economy. I actually give McCain the benefit that he admits that he is not an economic genius. I don't expect the president to "know" everything. If he gets the right people and stays out of the way, the US will be much better off then someone who considers themselves an expert on everything. But Obama was a community organizer who went from $70k to $400k right. Besides he "consults" with guys like Warren Buffet.....

4. I am more interested right now with who they both surround themselves with. That will be a very telling factor.

Do we need change? The world is changing. We either become active in our course or we sit back and let it pass us by. You bet we need change. The only question imho is which direction and how we proceed.

By definition we will have change. Bush can't win again....

Wait, you said "We either become active". I want a president who will basically get out of the peoples way and let them do what needs to be done. I don't want want a president that is all about the "I will save the country." The president should lead by guiding small corrections to the direction not by dictating change to the population. (for their own good of course)

McCain would not have been my first choice but between him and Obama, I have go with McCain causing less damage. (pending announcement of surrounding staff/cabinet)

[island911]

Originally Posted by tobster1911

....
3. The biggest problem I see is the economy. I actually give McCain the benefit that he admits that he is not an economic genius. I don't expect the president to "know" everything. If he gets the right people and stays out of the way, the US will be much better off then someone who considers themselves an expert on everything. But Obama was a community organizer who went from $70k to $400k right. Besides he "consults" with guys like Warren Buffet.....
...

Spot on. McCain is more a political manger, whereas Obama is being politically managed. All sorts of Lib's see Obama as somewhat an empty vessel, a political neophyte, who can be easily swayed/ controlled with standard Liberal guilt.

Does anyone think that Obama, given the power of the presidency, is suddenly going to start working to bring together this country? He certainly didn't bring people together during his year as a state senator ... He certainly didn't bring people together during his campaign for POTUS. (well, other than some Germans. David Hasslehoff must be pissed)

Barrack (aka Barry) Hussein Obama is an arrogant egotistical scam man, who is after a popularity contest and power for himself. McCain, OTOH, is a a managing type American-politician who sides with his country first.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by island911

Barrack (aka Barry) Hussein Obama is an arrogant egotistical scam man, who is after a popularity contest and power for himself. McCain, OTOH, is a a managing type American-politician who sides with his country first.

Pure comedy gold.

Anyone who pursues the presidency is a raging egomaniac/power monger. Frankly, no sane person would go through the process. To me that is the saddest aspect of politics today.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by tobster1911

I previously looked at both of their official sites and here is what stands out to me.
http://www.barackobama.com/issues/
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issues/

1. The order of the issues.
Obama (1) Civil Rights (2) Defense (3) Disability (4) Economy
McCain (1) Economy (2) Energy (3) Security (4) Health Care

Yes I realize that Obama is in alphabetical order. McCain's seem to be in order of priority. So how do I know which issues are highest in Obama's eyes? I personally think the order of McCain's issues is more correct.

-snip-

McCain would not have been my first choice but between him and Obama, I have go with McCain causing less damage. (pending announcement of surrounding staff/cabinet)

How do you know that McCain was trying to put them in alphabetical order and just got confused?

I to would like to see a heirarchy of the talking points, but I'm not going to take him to task for using alphabetical organization.

The people who surround McCain should he be elected will be key, and imho it is a big "if" that he picks good ones.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by island911

Spot on. McCain is more a political manger, whereas Obama is being politically managed. All sorts of Lib's see Obama as somewhat an empty vessel, a political neophyte, who can be easily swayed/ controlled with standard Liberal guilt.

whoa, wait a second, when did you guys switch from the "Obama is a Muslim" to "Obama is/will be easily controlled" talking point?

Is he still racist? is his flag pin OK these days? is he still going to demand white women sleep with him every other Tuesday as part of a random lottery?

[nostatic]

Shaun, you aren't getting the memos. As near as I can figure, the trail is something like this:

He's a closet Muslim, and will turn the US into a Muslim country
He's the next Hitler, since he is a charismatic speaker and forceful leader
He's the next Castro (see above)
He's actually a weak puppet for Reid/Pelosi

Maybe next he'll be gay or possibly trans-gender. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[Mule]

Missed one

[nostatic]

Estelle died?!?!?

I need to take the rest of the day off from work...too verklempt...

[Hard-Deck]

Originally Posted by tobster1911

...(pending announcement of surrounding staff/cabinet)

Spot on, the cabinet/staff is the ticket. Watch closely to who's in the lineup before you vote.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by Snapper33

Spot on, the cabinet/staff is the ticket. Watch closely to who's in the lineup before you vote.

I agree, a cabinet is very important. but will McCain lead his cabinet with vision, will he listen to it when/if he asks for feedback, or will he just fight with it? or will he just ignore it? he's a maverick after all, not a leader.

[Shaun @ Tru6]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Shaun, you aren't getting the memos. As near as I can figure, the trail is something like this:

He's a closet Muslim, and will turn the US into a Muslim country
He's the next Hitler, since he is a charismatic speaker and forceful leader
He's the next Castro (see above)
He's actually a weak puppet for Reid/Pelosi

Maybe next he'll be gay or possibly trans-gender. Not that there's anything wrong with that...

thanks for the chronology, I can't keep up with them. I think next thing they'll throw at the wall will be a photoshop of his older daughter selling crack, cause everyone knows that's what blackfolks do.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by Shaun 84 Targa

I agree, a cabinet is very important. but will McCain lead his cabinet with vision, will he listen to it when/if he asks for feedback, or will he just fight with it? or will he just ignore it? he's a maverick after all, not a leader.

And Nobama, with his illustrious background od community organization & teleprompter reading, is?

[MichiganMat]

Originally Posted by Mule

And Nobama, with his illustrious background od community organization & teleprompter reading, is?

For 12 years he was a successful law professor at the University of Chicago, which no doubt in Mule-world makes him even less qualified to lead.

If only he had run a few major corporations into the ground (Bush, Fiorina, etc), maybe then we could respect him.