Does the Truth Matter Anymore?

[Pazuzu]

Originally Posted by BeyGon

Jeee whiz, I saw it on TV today, I thought it was funny but didn't know it was a big deal yet.

At least now I know it was some sort of TV interview.

[drew1]

American politics, do you reckon they'll start having duels like we read about in the history books?

[Jim727]

Originally Posted by IROC

All I can say is that if McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden is the best this country has to offer - we're in serious trouble. Serious trouble.

An accurate assessment.

[Nathans_Dad]

Originally Posted by Pazuzu

At least the original poster had the respect to post his source.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/sex-ed-for-kind.html

Sex Ed for Kindergarteners 'Right Thing to Do,' Says Obama
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July 18, 2007 1:13 PM

ABC News' Teddy Davis and Lindsey Ellerson Report: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., told Planned Parenthood Tuesday that sex education for kindergarteners, as long as it is "age-appropriate," is "the right thing to do."

"I remember Alan Keyes . . . I remember him using this in his campaign against me," Obama said in reference to the conservative firebrand who ran against him for the U.S. Senate in 2004. Sex education for kindergarteners had become an issue in his race against Keyes because of Obama’s work on the issue as chairman of the health committee in the Illinois state Senate.

"'Barack Obama supports teaching sex education to kindergarteners,'" said Obama mimicking Keyes' distinctive style of speech. "Which -- I didn’t know what to tell him (laughter)."

"But it’s the right thing to do," Obama continued, "to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools."

Ah yes, such lies coming from the McCain campaign!!! Lies, lies, lies!!!

Ridiculous.

[Jim Richards]

Originally Posted by IROC

All I can say is that if McCain/Palin or Obama/Biden is the best this country has to offer - we're in serious trouble. Serious trouble.

+1x10^300

[Sunroof]

Who in the hell can support some broad who believes the earth is 5,000 years old, global warming does not exist, not teaching abstinence to teenage daughters, not allow sex education in schools, nor the use of condoms to protect against sexually transmitted disease, does not believe polar bears are endangered, abuse government travel funds, steal from the Alaskan coffers for the benefit of her home town and on it goes. Lets not forget she lost the beauty contest has an incredibly annoying voice and a 50's hairdo and VERY NERD glasses. Real righteous! Just the kind of nut we need if McCain croaks in office.

When "lipstick" Palin comes forward and starts to answer serious questions on serious issues then folks will listen. For now she is just another far right radical pawn on the Repuiblican chess board.

And..........Damn is worth millions and a self made man. He is entitled to his opinion. So much Matt Damon envy here.

[Mule]

So does this mean the political ban doesn't apply to the left?

[Rot 911]

Originally Posted by Mule

So does this mean the political ban doesn't apply to the left?

You would be correct.

[kang]

Originally Posted by rouxroux

Kang, why wait? Here is a direct quote from the messiah:

"I remember him, uh, using this in his campaign against me saying "Barack Obaba supports teaching sex education to kindegartners.: (laughter) And, you know, which --I didn't know what to tell him...BUT IT'S THE RIGHT THING TO DO."

He spoketh these words while preaching to the choir (talking to a planned parenthood meeting) 11/20/2007 when talking about Alan Keyes.

Why wait for some paper's spin? There it is, so sayeth the B-HO. Any er, uh, mmmm,ahh mo' questions?"
...oh yeah...I guess in B-HO's case it's "stranger danger"....

He supports “age appropriate sex education.” McCain’s campaign ad states “comprehensive” sex education. There is a big difference between “age appropriate” and “comprehensive.”

It is a misstatement of the bill’s purpose, therefore, to maintain, as the McCain campaign advertisement does, that Mr. Obama favored conventional sex education as a policy for 5-year-olds. Under the Illinois proposal, “medically accurate” education about more complicated topics, including intercourse, contraception and homosexuality, would have been reserved for older students in higher grades.

For example, you could teach kindergartners about when their uncle touches them. There is touching that is OK, and touching that is NOT ok. That’s what this bill was about. Not teaching kindergartners what a “dirty sanchez” is.

As for the truth, here it is:

Mr. Obama voted for the bill in committee, where it passed, but it never came to a full and final vote. The proposal called for “age and developmentally appropriate” sex education and also allowed parents the option of withdrawing their children from such classroom instruction if they felt that it clashed with their beliefs or values.

In referring to the sex-education bill, the McCain campaign is largely recycling old and discredited accusations made against Mr. Obama by Alan Keyes in their 2004 Senate race. At that time, Mr. Obama stated that he understood the main objective of the legislation, as it pertained to kindergarteners, to be to teach them how to defend themselves against sexual predators.

“I have a 6-year-old daughter and a 3-year-old daughter, and one of the things my wife and I talked to our daughter about is the possibility of somebody touching them inappropriately, and what that might mean,” Mr. Obama said in 2004. “And that was included specifically in the law, so that kindergarteners are able to exercise some possible protection against abuse, because I have family members as well as friends who suffered abuse at that age.”

Personally, I find it incredibly vile that McCain would stoop so low.

[kang]

Originally Posted by Nathans_Dad

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/sex-ed-for-kind.html

Sex Ed for Kindergarteners 'Right Thing to Do,' Says Obama
Email
Share

July 18, 2007 1:13 PM

ABC News' Teddy Davis and Lindsey Ellerson Report: Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., told Planned Parenthood Tuesday that sex education for kindergarteners, as long as it is "age-appropriate," is "the right thing to do."

"I remember Alan Keyes . . . I remember him using this in his campaign against me," Obama said in reference to the conservative firebrand who ran against him for the U.S. Senate in 2004. Sex education for kindergarteners had become an issue in his race against Keyes because of Obama’s work on the issue as chairman of the health committee in the Illinois state Senate.

"'Barack Obama supports teaching sex education to kindergarteners,'" said Obama mimicking Keyes' distinctive style of speech. "Which -- I didn’t know what to tell him (laughter)."

"But it’s the right thing to do," Obama continued, "to provide age-appropriate sex education, science-based sex education in schools."

Ah yes, such lies coming from the McCain campaign!!! Lies, lies, lies!!!

Ridiculous.

You say ridiculous only because you are reading what you want to read, not what is actually out there. You want to believe McCain’s ad, you want to believe that Obama supports teaching full sex education to kindergarners. You want to have a reason to hate Obama.

You missed this quote from the very article you referenced above.

When Obama's campaign was asked by ABC News to explain what kind of sex education Obama considers "age appropriate" for kindergarteners, the Obama campaign pointed to an Oct. 6, 2004 story from the Daily Herald in which Obama had "moved to clarify" in his Senate campaign that he "does not support teaching explicit sex education to children in kindergarten. . . The legislation in question was a state Senate measure last year that aimed to update Illinois' sex education standards with 'medically accurate' information . . . 'Nobody's suggesting that kindergartners are going to be getting information about sex in the way that we think about it,' Obama said. 'If they ask a teacher 'where do babies come from,' that providing information that the fact is that it's not a stork is probably not an unhealthy thing. Although again, that's going to be determined on a case by case basis by local communities and local school boards.'"

By omitting this, you have presented (like McCain has) a very distorted view of the facts. You have entirely misrepresented Obama’s position. You have warped the truth to make it seem like he is “suggesting that kindergartners are going to be getting information about sex in the way that we think about it” when in fact his quote is just the opposite:

'Nobody's suggesting that kindergartners are going to be getting information about sex in the way that we think about it,' Obama said.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by kang

He supports “age appropriate sex education.” McCain’s campaign ad states “comprehensive” sex education. There is a big difference between “age appropriate” and “comprehensive.”



For example, you could teach kindergartners about when their uncle touches them. There is touching that is OK, and touching that is NOT ok. That’s what this bill was about. Not teaching kindergartners what a “dirty sanchez” is.

As for the truth, here it is:


Personally, I find it incredibly vile that McCain would stoop so low.

Another Obama translator.

[Mule]

Originally Posted by kang

You say ridiculous only because you are reading what you want to read, not what is actually out there. You want to believe McCain’s ad, you want to believe that Obama supports teaching full sex education to kindergarners. You want to have a reason to hate Obama.

You missed this quote from the very article you referenced above.



By omitting this, you have presented (like McCain has) a very distorted view of the facts. You have entirely misrepresented Obama’s position. You have warped the truth to make it seem like he is “suggesting that kindergartners are going to be getting information about sex in the way that we think about it” when in fact his quote is just the opposite:

'Nobody's suggesting that kindergartners are going to be getting information about sex in the way that we think about it,' Obama said.

Yep. Get some left wing wackazoids from SF to come up with a whole new sex ed program for kindergardeners.

[Jim727]

Originally Posted by Jim Richards

+1x10^300

6.0238x10^23

[kang]

Originally Posted by Mule

Another Obama translator.

No translation required.

'Nobody's suggesting that kindergartners are going to be getting information about sex in the way that we think about it,' Obama said.

[rouxroux]

Originally Posted by kang

He supports “age appropriate sex education.” McCain’s campaign ad states “comprehensive” sex education. There is a big difference between “age appropriate” and “comprehensive.”

OK Kang...Here's a direct quote fromSB0099:

"Each class or course in COMPREHENSIVE sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV."

Now I don't know how they teach comprehension in your state, but that word I capitalized "comprehensive" to me means "all inclusive"...What say ye?

Now there is "age appropriate" language in the bill, but right there the word COMPREHENSIVE is pretty visible to me.

Oh, if you want to read the entire bill for yourself, go to www.ilga.gov/legislation
and click on "legislation & laws", then click "bills & resolutions", then type in SB0099 and look for Section 5. The School Code is amended by changing the Sections 27-9.1 and 27-9.2 as follows:



...so, in closing "comprehensive" is what is stated in the FIRST section. So that point can not be argued.

[Mule]

What is "age appropriate" to a code pink leftie? Or a NAMBLA guy from the bay area?

[kang]

Originally Posted by rouxroux

OK Kang...Here's a direct quote fromSB0099:

"Each class or course in COMPREHENSIVE sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV."

Now I don't know how they teach comprehension in your state, but that word I capitalized "comprehensive" to me means "all inclusive"...What say ye?

Now there is "age appropriate" language in the bill, but right there the word COMPREHENSIVE is pretty visible to me.

Oh, if you want to read the entire bill for yourself, go to www.ilga.gov/legislation
and click on "legislation & laws", then click "bills & resolutions", then type in SB0099 and look for Section 5. The School Code is amended by changing the Sections 27-9.1 and 27-9.2 as follows:

...so, in closing "comprehensive" is what is stated in the FIRST section. So that point can not be argued.

Do you have a typo in the bill number? The SB0099 I find in that link is something about a Sudan Investment. Perhaps I am looking in the wrong place, but I am looking under “senate bills.”

In any case, Obama has made it clear that he does not support teaching full on comprehensive sec ed to kindergartners. What part of that do you no understand?

Again: “'Nobody's suggesting that kindergartners are going to be getting information about sex in the way that we think about it,' Obama said.” What part of this quote do you not understand? Obama is very clear here.

What that sentence you quoted says is what the comprehensive class will teach. While it does mention grade K, it does not state that the comprehensive class will be taught to grade K. Grade K will receive “age appropriate” sex ed.

Come on people, you don’t really believe these lies, do you? Do you really believe that Obama supports full on sex ed to kindergartners? That’s just crazy talk. It’s is really just warping the actual facts so that you can convince yourselves of that.

And it really is a low attack from McCain.

It really is “In referring to the sex-education bill, the McCain campaign is largely recycling old and discredited accusations made against Mr. Obama by Alan Keyes in their 2004 Senate race.”

What part of “discredited” in the sentence do you not understand?

[rouxroux]

Kang, it is 093_SB0099

And as I said, there is "age appropriate" wording, but AGAIN, you can not argue that it does not state COMPREHENSIVE. So the point is moot about the "interpretation of the difference".

I guess it depends on what your interpretation of "is" is, right?

[Burnin' oil]

Kang,

I have heard Obama say tax cuts for 95% of Americans and tax increases for 5%. Your initial post quotes a source saying the numbers are 80%/20%. Who's lying? I think everyone in politics lies, some more than others.

[Tidybuoy]

Originally Posted by kang

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/postpartisan/2008/09/does_the_truth_matter_anymore.html?hpid=opinionsbo x1

This is not false naivete: I am genuinely surprised that John McCain and his campaign keep throwing out false charges and making false claims without any qualms.

And now comes a truly vile McCain ad accusing Obama of supporting legislation to offer "'comprehensive sex education' to kindergartners." The announcer declares: "Learning about sex before learning to read? Barack Obama. Wrong on education. Wrong for your family."