we're outsourcing!!!

[rvanderpyl]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

This is one area where I actually support large-scale and ruthless government restrictions on business. Companies that do this should be taxed up to their eyeballs and we should be ratcheting up tariffs and other import restrictions at the same time. And SEALING our borders. And kicking any illegal laborers in this country the hell out. And ending NAFTA. And ending our participation in "new world order" organizations like the G-20 who only undermine our economy by letting us get dragged down by third-world nations. Don't get me started.

Is that protectionism? You bet it is. And it's absolutely what's needed right now in order to get our own economic house in order. And yes, I'm familiar with the Smoot-Hawley Act of the 1930s. The situation today is different. We NEED to isolate ourselves in order to rebuild our manufacturing infrastructure (which has been deliberately and systematically stolen away by China for the last 40 years). We need to encourage trade education. We need to encourage people to build and buy domestic. We CAN NOT have a "service-only economy". It doesn't work!

I'm sorry to hear your company is doing this. I lose a lot of respect for companies that resort to these kinds of tactics and go out of my way (when/where possible) to avoid them.

I bet any goverment that laid on enoiugh tariffs and import restrictions to actually make it more economical for companies to manufacture in the US than import, would last exactly one term before being booted out by a population that was outraged and not being able to afford all the items they have been used to buying.

[waters]

I went though this with Weyerhaeuser.Worst thing that ever happened to me !!! EDS ran the IT department into the ground. Seven years later HP won new contract and EDS was sold to HP. I had enough !!!!! Never Again ....

[mikester]

EDS is one of the vendors they are considering, I never hear anything good about them.

We just got an update today - they are proceeding to an RFP stage.

[legion]

No one cares about your business as much as you do...

[mikester]

They have made it clear that their business and my business is are not one in the same.

I had always taken the view that their business was my business (I support them) but they have informed me that is not the case.

[vbaron]

I am neck deep in the middle of an outsourcing. We had been manufacturing electronics within the building, but now the powers that be have decided to outsource the work. Some to Electronic Manufacturing houses in the US and China - and also to Reynosa, Mexico, which is located on the US/Mexico border and is the area of much of the drug related violence going on in Mexico.

Between the swine flu and the the gun battles I brought up the question of what happens to our production (and the company's product) if they close the border. No answer yet.

Between the delays of getting product from China, inept project planning, and pie-in-the-sky saving estimates, this will cost us big time. But of course upper management and the bean counters will never admit that otherwise heads would roll. It will be someone else's fault...

[mikester]

Yeah, it sounds like once it is done - it's done for good. The contract would be at least 5 years.



Up until a few months ago I really liked this job, I'm just plain disappointed and completely turned off on working for anyone but myself.

I need good medical benefits.

I'm going to research the private market for them but I am skeptical.

This is where I feel that socialized medicine would be something that would really stimulate folks like me into their own businesses. Right now, I'm an indentured servant of sorts to larger companies who need people like me.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by mikester

Yeah, it sounds like once it is done - it's done for good. The contract would be at least 5 years.



Up until a few months ago I really liked this job, I'm just plain disappointed and completely turned off on working for anyone but myself.

I need good medical benefits.

I'm going to research the private market for them but I am skeptical.

This is where I feel that socialized medicine would be something that would really stimulate folks like me into their own businesses. Right now, I'm an indentured servant of sorts to larger companies who need people like me.

Look at the medical response in Mexico City, for what socialized medicine will do. It is not GOOD medical benefits.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

This is one area where I actually support large-scale and ruthless government restrictions on business. Companies that do this should be taxed up to their eyeballs and we should be ratcheting up tariffs and other import restrictions at the same time. And SEALING our borders. And kicking any illegal laborers in this country the hell out. And ending NAFTA. And ending our participation in "new world order" organizations like the G-20 who only undermine our economy by letting us get dragged down by third-world nations. Don't get me started.

Is that protectionism? You bet it is. And it's absolutely what's needed right now in order to get our own economic house in order. And yes, I'm familiar with the Smoot-Hawley Act of the 1930s. The situation today is different. We NEED to isolate ourselves in order to rebuild our manufacturing infrastructure (which has been deliberately and systematically stolen away by China for the last 40 years). We need to encourage trade education. We need to encourage people to build and buy domestic. We CAN NOT have a "service-only economy". It doesn't work!

I'm sorry to hear your company is doing this. I lose a lot of respect for companies that resort to these kinds of tactics and go out of my way (when/where possible) to avoid them.

Jeff, the problem is your solution. Raise taxes on a company, and they absolutely will leave the US. The problem is we are taxing and regulating manufacturing out of this country.

Zero out corporate taxes. Zero out income taxes. Go to a sale tax only system. Businesses will flock here. Reduce the cost of energy, etc. We are doing exactly the opposite.

[mikester]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Look at the medical response in Mexico City, for what socialized medicine will do. It is not GOOD medical benefits.

Hmmm.

That's the best example too...

[mikester]

Originally Posted by red-beard

Jeff, the problem is your solution. Raise taxes on a company, and they absolutely will leave the US. The problem is we are taxing and regulating manufacturing out of this country.

Zero out corporate taxes. Zero out income taxes. Go to a sale tax only system. Businesses will flock here. Reduce the cost of energy, etc. We are doing exactly the opposite.

China can compete with us because they do not have the regulations we do. James is mostly correct on this.

Here is an example, chrome is pretty bad stuff but it's really HARD. It is great as we are all aware for piston liners.

Model engines made in Japan these days have nickel plated piston liners vs model engines made in China which have true Chrome liners.

The Nickle engines are MORE EXPENSIVE (possibly a brand issue) and less good. For a while when OS (the manufacturer) started using Nickle because it was cheaper and easier to work with via Environmental regulations they suffered from peeling liner syndrome.

The Chinese engines have always used true chrome liners - thus no peeling AND a cheaper engine (again this could be brand related as well but probably only a percentage).

I'm guilty, I buy the Chinese engines. I like the Japanese engines too and when I have the money, I pick them. When I don't - I pick the Chinese. Even though their liners are better, the overall engine is not (Carb isn't as good).

[red-beard]

Mike, my former company does chrome lining of REAL engine, pistols and cylinders, in the USA. It does it in Ponca City, OK. And these parts are BIG, like 5 feet long and 18" in diameter.

I used to think the problem was just the regulations and the labor costs. This was until I was actually working with companies building and making stuff outside the USA. On my project, the savings and boost in the project profit was 3% on the labor. The increase in margin based on tax savings was 8%. Cameron is moving production to places like Romania and China.

And Romania has to meet all EU regulations! The cost of labor is going up. The only thing getting people to move production to Romania and other eastern European countries, is low taxes.

[mikester]

It was late last night when I replied, I didn't finish my thought but you started to finish it there for me (Not even sure I finished it here).


So, while in the beginning the savings may have been significant due to savings in labor, materials, taxes and regulations.

As the local economy builds and the population becomes educated these savings start to erode.

Our company pays well in the countries we operate in, we pay those folks a decent living wage that they would not be able to get from some local company. Still, it is far less than they would pay someone in the US in salary and benefits. It's a win/win situation for the local economy and the company. Because this is so, the local government of course incentives the company with lower taxes and other niceties. We do this in the US as well.

It can't last forever though, think of our military bases. Typically they are setup outside but near metro areas. Near enough typically that if a small community exists it will grow dramatically to support the base, if it doesn't exist it likely will develop to service that bases population.

Until the base closes, which happened a lot in the late 80s and early 90s. I lived at one such base, March AFB in CA at that time. When the base closed, what had been a thriving new town became a ghost town. We could also use factory towns as an example for the car industry and what not.

A company is never going to stay in one place forever. Period. To expect it is asking for trouble. To incentive them and then expect it is asking for trouble. As long as there is a responsibility to share holders, they will look for how to save money even if they are making money hand over fist (which we are not).

As a company will stay in a location as long as it fits within their balance sheet. Once it no longer fits, time to pack up and leave.

Another fine example of this is Nissan. Headquartered in Torrance for the longest time in the US, moved to TN a couple of years ago. CA stopped fitting in their balance sheet.

[red-beard]

It wasn't tax "incentives" that is helping Romania, it is a fixed 16% income/corporate tax.

That is the REAL problem in the US. We have a tax code with too many incentives, known as tax breaks or loop holes, depending on whether you like them on not.

[mikester]

Still hanging on...it's not looking good. My attitude is going way down lately...

[Superman]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

This is one area where I actually support large-scale and ruthless government restrictions on business......

You guys are funny.

[red-beard]

Originally Posted by Superman

You guys are funny.

Welcome back!

[mikester]

Seriously disgruntled today...

Supposed to find out if it is go/no-go on Monday I think. General speculation of the rumor mill is that it will be the Indian company.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile

This is one area where I actually support large-scale and ruthless government restrictions on business.

Your free market ideology appears to be one of convenience.

[flatbutt]

We've been outsourcing for 4 years now. We're down to the minimum in house staff in my location. It has been he11 for those that got fired and merely purgatorial for those of us that survived. It HAS paid off for the company as it has remained profitable through it all. But I can't offer any assurance that it won't continue until the stateside staff is "virtual".