we're outsourcing!!!

mikester · 03-26-2009, 08:06 AM

Yay!

Jim Richards · 03-26-2009, 08:14 AM

I outsourced my enthusiasm to the Mikester.

onewhippedpuppy · 03-26-2009, 08:16 AM

Trust me, it always works out well.

Don't worry, once it all goes horribly wrong your company will bring the work back in-house, at a huge cost that probably requires layoffs guaranteeing that said work that is currently being completed will now be consistently months behind schedule. Or maybe that's just me.

Jim Richards · 03-26-2009, 10:53 AM

I think it makes more sense to outsource the corporate executives/managers that feel outsourcing is a good idea.

tabs · 03-26-2009, 11:00 AM

American Labour is TOOO HIGH PRICED...and is not competative on the world market. Americans should have learned to live within their means 40 years ago and cut back when they had a chance. Now it is too late and Americans are going to have to pay the price of cronic under and un employment. Get used to it baby...Not only that but the American education system is turning out SECOND RATE students...who are ill equiped to handle working at McDonalds. Can you all say Detroit..for that is what the whole fo America is going to resemble in a few years...You all should have been learning how to read instead of watching the SuperBowl on TV...Now you are going to have to pay the price and that ain't gona be pretty.

Jim Richards · 03-26-2009, 11:03 AM

tabs · 03-26-2009, 11:06 AM

Doom & Gloom

mikester · 03-26-2009, 05:19 PM

Well, we had a huge RIF late last year (November) that cut deep in my division. 50% from my team itself.

Then we lost another guy, hiring freeze, headcount cut.

Now, they announced today they are progressing towards RFI on outsourcing our work. I was out of the office for the events so I don't know all the details but I know it sucks. We are already behind, understaffed and over worked.

I don't even know what to do...I was really hoping I could be with this company for a while but I just don't think I jive with how much they want to move out of the US. They are a global company and act globally but it just doesn't seem to sit well with me. I just feel like they are moving totally out of the USA, I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled a Nissan and moved out of CA.

mikester · 03-27-2009, 10:29 AM

It's fantastic, it's wonderful I can't wait!

I guess over the next 22 weeks they will be working to get a company in to take over the infrastructure of our IT (Network/Systems/Desktop support/DBAs, the lot).

We don't know how much of it will actually be offloaded as they are still in RFI and study stages - their goal is all.

They want to replace us all with a contract company and my understanding is that they will work to get us all jobs with that company.
pfft.

Man I hate the way this job has turned out.

Scott R · Scott R's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikester

It's fantastic, it's wonderful I can't wait!

I guess over the next 22 weeks they will be working to get a company in to take over the infrastructure of our IT (Network/Systems/Desktop support/DBAs, the lot).

We don't know how much of it will actually be offloaded as they are still in RFI and study stages - their goal is all.

They want to replace us all with a contract company and my understanding is that they will work to get us all jobs with that company.
pfft.

Man I hate the way this job has turned out.

I went through this at IBM, was one of the best things that ever happened to me. First I got out of IBM, second I got a much better job.

mikester · 04-01-2009, 10:35 PM

Well, I can't say I haven't worked in places that have been outsourced. I just don't know if I can trust my fate to these guys to make a choice that is good for me.

Quite a few of the staff here are much more optimistic than I am. I think they are delusional. I think the only way they will be safe is if the companies who can provide a global service to this company I work for think we're just too small to be cost effective. We run extremely lean as it is, we're a house-hold name type of company but the IT infrastructure is not a huge chunk of the company.

legion · 04-02-2009, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

American Labour is TOOO HIGH PRICED...

In some cases, that is true. In some cases, it is an illusion.

My company can get two programmers in India for the price of me. I can tell you from experience that when I get code back from India, it takes me twice as long to rewrite it because it generally doesn't follow standards, let alone work. So if it would have taken me 1X time to do it, it takes a guy offshore twice as long to do the same thing, then me twice as long to bring it up to standards and make it work. That essentially works out to 0.5(2X) + 2X. So it ended up costing 3 times as much and taking four times as long to send the code offshore.

I've honestly just taken to throwing away whatever code I get from offshore and just writing it from scratch as it saves me time over trying to debug non-standard spaghetti code. 0.5(2X) + 1X. I'm saving the company money by it only taking three times as long and costing twice as much in labor.

onewhippedpuppy · 04-02-2009, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion

In some cases, that is true. In some cases, it is an illusion.

My company can get two programmers in India for the price of me. I can tell you from experience that when I get code back from India, it takes me twice as long to rewrite it because it generally doesn't follow standards, let alone work. So if it would have taken me 1X time to do it, it takes a guy offshore twice as long to do the same thing, then me twice as long to bring it up to standards and make it work. That essentially works out to 0.5(2X) + 2X. So it ended up costing 3 times as much and taking four times as long to send the code offshore.

I've honestly just taken to throwing away whatever code I get from offshore and just writing it from scratch as it saves me time over trying to debug non-standard spaghetti code. 0.5(2X) + 1X. I'm saving the company money by it only taking three times as long and costing twice as much in labor.

Funny, that sounds exactly like our experience with an Indian engineering contractor. It gives our management a warm fuzzy because the rates are low, but when they have to do the same job 3-4 times because they keep getting it wrong....... Not to mention that in order for them to actually do anything, we have to spend so much time outlining the task that it would be quicker to just do it ourselves. Fortunately our management is starting to catch on.

stealthn · 04-02-2009, 05:39 AM

Mike,

Yes this is always a pie in the sky thing for Companies, and once they get their first time and materials bill they realize they will spend more money on outsourcing and it's too late; they are locked in to a long term contract with huge penalties for canceling.

I was consulting at a Company for a while on their networking side and they were partnered with a big name outsourcing Company so I was always asking the sales guys "how do you sell this to the Companies?" It basically comes down to cutting service to the end customer just to keep the T & M costs down.

I have yet to see it work out EVER.

legion · 04-02-2009, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

Funny, that sounds exactly like our experience with an Indian engineering contractor. It gives our management a warm fuzzy because the rates are low, but when they have to do the same job 3-4 times because they keep getting it wrong....... Not to mention that in order for them to actually do anything, we have to spend so much time outlining the task that it would be quicker to just do it ourselves. Fortunately our management is starting to catch on.

Yep, I have written "pseudo-code", which is usually just an English-like description of the processing, but when I am sending stuff offshore it is the actual code I expect to have written. (I have literally made the exercise of sending specs offshore a copy-and-paste exercise for the programmer.) I get back something completely different that doesn't work. If what I get back doesn't match what I asked for, I just toss it. I'm supposed to get back code that is compiled, unit tested, and meets standards, but most of the time it does none of those three.

Porsche-O-Phile · Porsche-O-Phile's Garage

This is one area where I actually support large-scale and ruthless government restrictions on business. Companies that do this should be taxed up to their eyeballs and we should be ratcheting up tariffs and other import restrictions at the same time. And SEALING our borders. And kicking any illegal laborers in this country the hell out. And ending NAFTA. And ending our participation in "new world order" organizations like the G-20 who only undermine our economy by letting us get dragged down by third-world nations. Don't get me started.

Is that protectionism? You bet it is. And it's absolutely what's needed right now in order to get our own economic house in order. And yes, I'm familiar with the Smoot-Hawley Act of the 1930s. The situation today is different. We NEED to isolate ourselves in order to rebuild our manufacturing infrastructure (which has been deliberately and systematically stolen away by China for the last 40 years). We need to encourage trade education. We need to encourage people to build and buy domestic. We CAN NOT have a "service-only economy". It doesn't work!

I'm sorry to hear your company is doing this. I lose a lot of respect for companies that resort to these kinds of tactics and go out of my way (when/where possible) to avoid them.

dd74 · 04-02-2009, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tabs

You all should have been learning how to read instead of watching the SuperBowl on TV...

I watched the Super Bowl in closed caption. Doesn't that count for something?

dd74 · 04-02-2009, 08:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikester

It's fantastic, it's wonderful I can't wait!

I guess over the next 22 weeks they will be working to get a company in to take over the infrastructure of our IT (Network/Systems/Desktop support/DBAs, the lot).

We don't know how much of it will actually be offloaded as they are still in RFI and study stages - their goal is all.

They want to replace us all with a contract company and my understanding is that they will work to get us all jobs with that company.
pfft.

Man I hate the way this job has turned out.

Jeez, Mike, I'm sorry to hear this. And on a personal side note, I think it's very un-American, particularly from a company as historic as yours.

To hell with Hot Wheels and Barbie.

mikester · 04-02-2009, 05:51 PM

it's awesome...

Wickd89 · 04-03-2009, 06:55 PM

thank you come again......