I'm not getting along with the 30 somethings.

[jyl]

Originally Posted by milt

Reading back thru this thread I get the idea that people on this forum think I'm a dinosaur. My email addy is on my card. I welcome emails and faxes. What do I get? Phone calls on Sundays.

Anyway, I just got home from working for a 70 YO widow. I've had to work around her major and frequent idiosyncrasies. No problem for me and she loves that fact that I'd pick up her dogs' crap if she wanted me to. See, she's not too able. I wouldn't do that for a 30 something.

No argument about my wage either. I might have found my new niche.

Ah, the time-honored contractor-gigolo combination. I hear it can be lucrative and fun. Just kidding.

[legion]

Dropping back in again...

Maybe I'm not a typical 30-something according to this thread. For, the quotes I got on the roof, the contractor is competing with me. I've already priced what it will cost me to do the job and I'd prefer to have someone knowledgeable do it, but 3-4 times the cost of me to do it, I can't justify paying someone else.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty atypical for my area. Bloomington-Normal is flush with young professionals who can't swing a hammer, so contractors can ask for some pretty high prices (we have some of the highest home-improvement costs in the country).

I'll give another example. Last week, I called a plumber for a leaky shower. Now, I've tried to fix it myself but the aftermarket seals are not the proper size and would actually make it leak worse. The company that makes the valve went out of business ten years ago. The plumber comes over and tells me he's going to have to rip out the whole valve and re-tile. It will take three days and cost $1,000. I tell him this is overkill for a bad seal. He explains that they don't make this kind of valve anymore (which I already knew). So after 45 minutes of arguing, he finally says that he can get a seal for my shower at a shop in town (that I didn't know of), but it will cost another $150. I say I'll get it myself. Now I had to pay $90 for him to come out and try to talk me into work I didn't need. I go to the shop he mentioned and sure enough they have some old seals from the original manufacturer than have been sitting on the shelf for ten years. A set of seals and springs costs me $1.50, of course I bought their only other set as spares. So for a grand total of $3.00, I was able to fix the problem. Well, $3.00 and $90.00...

[jyl]

Originally Posted by legion

Dropping back in again...

Maybe I'm not a typical 30-something according to this thread. For, the quotes I got on the roof, the contractor is competing with me. I've already priced what it will cost me to do the job and I'd prefer to have someone knowledgeable do it, but 3-4 times the cost of me to do it, I can't justify paying someone else.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty atypical for my area. Bloomington-Normal is flush with young professionals who can't swing a hammer, so contractors can ask for some pretty high prices (we have some of the highest home-improvement costs in the country).

From the contractor point of view, I imagine that is "fortunately".

[LeeH]

Originally Posted by nostatic

It is a big world out there. You should pick and choose your business partners based on compatibility.

ABSOLUTELY! My clients know that if they need me I'm usually there. That makes me more valuable to them than the 9-5 types. Sometimes I get calls on Sunday afternoon and that's ok with me. My clients are small business owners who are dealing with THEIR clients during business hours. If I limited my hours to M-F 9-5 I'd have a lot less business.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Dottore

For what it's worth Milt, there are lots of us out here who would rather hire a competent old coot like your good self even if the price is higher. Any time!

I have been through contractor-hell for the past three years on several home renovations, additions etc. and have become extraordinarily cynical about the carpetbaggers and charlatans that inhabit these trades. I'm guessing one in ten is even remotely competent. Maybe that's too generous.

My particular pet peeve is the earnest elderly experienced contractor who tips up to eyeball the project and give a cost estimate (and who appears to be supremely capable), but who you never see again after you have signed the work order, and who is suddenly and inexplicably replaced by gangs of juvenile delinquents who do the actual work—and inevitably do it very badly—while the "boss" looks after other projects.

I am sure you can email him and communicate that way.

No young punks on my jobs. No thanks. A couple of of my subs use them but only to help dig a hole of what not, that's it. Most of my subs have working for us for more then 10 years. Like my painter, for example, it is a husband and wife team with one helper whos also family. I love those guys.

I have my subs meet my client before they start work on the property. Usually days before, everyjob, big or small. That introduction is a must, this way they know who's coming who's going. I make sure my subs introduce their crew to the owners. I used to pay them 50-60 bucks of gas money for that in the beginning. Now they are trained. My subs love me. I never ***** about price, and I pay always pay on time. I show up at the job at least 3-4 days out of the week and meet with the owners 1-2 times weekely. People can't understand it but it is cheap advertisment. They love us for that. If people are living in the house during the remodel, I have the cleaning ladies clean the hold house during the project. Depend on the length of the remodel, I usually clean it 3 weeks after demo, then another after plastering or sheetrock. Nothing like going to bed and find a bunch of dust on top of their dresser or their bath countertops. Cost me 2-300 bucks each time, again this show them how much we care about their home. I have met new clients that say "we like how you clean so and so's home during the remodel before its done. My wife would really like that." I pretty much just name my price. Of course, you can't rip them, but it is built into the price. I found that people would be more then happy to pay for that.

Provide a great service and a smile then a little bit of education (depending on who I am talking to) goes a long way. Soon, I have them eating out of my hands and they will listen to my advice and not feel like I am trying sell them anything. elimate any agruments .

Jeff

[jyl]

Interested in what the "right" resolution was. I think I would have had him get the NOS seal, fix it, and paid him the $150 for the work but more importantly for and his knowledge. That is what I would have done anyway. (Edit: well, unless I thought he'd been totally trying to rip me off and I was pissed off.)

Dropping back in again...



Maybe I'm not a typical 30-something according to this thread. For, the quotes I got on the roof, the contractor is competing with me. I've already priced what it will cost me to do the job and I'd prefer to have someone knowledgeable do it, but 3-4 times the cost of me to do it, I can't justify paying someone else.



Unfortunately, I'm pretty atypical for my area. Bloomington-Normal is flush with young professionals who can't swing a hammer, so contractors can ask for some pretty high prices (we have some of the highest home-improvement costs in the country).



I'll give another example. Last week, I called a plumber for a leaky shower. Now, I've tried to fix it myself but the aftermarket seals are not the proper size and would actually make it leak worse. The company that makes the valve went out of business ten years ago. The plumber comes over and tells me he's going to have to rip out the whole valve and re-tile. It will take three days and cost $1,000. I tell him this is overkill for a bad seal. He explains that they don't make this kind of valve anymore (which I already knew). So after 45 minutes of arguing, he finally says that he can get a seal for my shower at a shop in town (that I didn't know of), but it will cost another $150. I say I'll get it myself. Now I had to pay $90 for him to come out and try to talk me into work I didn't need. I go to the shop he mentioned and sure enough they have some old seals from the original manufacturer than have been sitting on the shelf for ten years. A set of seals and springs costs me $1.50, of course I bought their only other set as spares. So for a grand total of $3.00, I was able to fix the problem. Well, $3.00 and $90.00...

[Danimal16]

Originally Posted by Dottore

For what it's worth Milt, there are lots of us out here who would rather hire a competent old coot like your good self even if the price is higher. Any time!

I have been through contractor-hell for the past three years on several home renovations, additions etc. and have become extraordinarily cynical about the carpetbaggers and charlatans that inhabit these trades. I'm guessing one in ten is even remotely competent. Maybe that's too generous.

My particular pet peeve is the earnest elderly experienced contractor who tips up to eyeball the project and give a cost estimate (and who appears to be supremely capable), but who you never see again after you have signed the work order, and who is suddenly and inexplicably replaced by gangs of juvenile delinquents who do the actual work—and inevitably do it very badly—while the "boss" looks after other projects.

If you are using a standard form contract, just attach a set of special provisions that you must approve ALL workers. Require the guy to give you the names. We do this all the time in the water business for the classified skilled trades. Sometimes if there is a change in the guy we agreed to, the project stops. Also you can put a clause in that has a cost consequence for worker or sub contractor changes without your express prior written approval in the form of a change order. These types of things can be accommodated, however, expect to pay for them.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by LeeH

ABSOLUTELY! My clients know that if they need me I'm usually there. That makes me more valuable to them than the 9-5 types. Sometimes I get calls on Sunday afternoon and that's ok with me. My clients are small business owners who are dealing with THEIR clients during business hours. If I limited my hours to M-F 9-5 I'd have a lot less business.

See, now YOU would get my work.

Because you're willing to work with me and not have an attitude about it.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by jyl

Interested in what the "right" resolution was. I think he should have gone, gotten the NOS seal, and fixed it, you would have willingly paid a couple more hours labor plus a $3 seal for that I assume?

Yeah, the old geezer sure do know where to get haro to find parts. That's what you pay the big bucks for, the experence and contact. Depending on the person, if they are nice and don't act dicks, I'll tell them where to get stuff and how to fix it, if not let it leak. Oh yeah forgot, find it on the net it will have it.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by jyl

Interested in what the "right" resolution was. I think I would have had him get the NOS seal, fix it, and paid him the $150 for the work but more importantly for and his knowledge. That is what I would have done anyway. (Edit: well, unless I thought he'd been totally trying to rip me off and I was pissed off.)

I agree with you jyl.

I don't really think legion did the right thing either. If i'd have been the guy he hired i'd have been really pissed.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by legion

Dropping back in again...

Maybe I'm not a typical 30-something according to this thread. For, the quotes I got on the roof, the contractor is competing with me. I've already priced what it will cost me to do the job and I'd prefer to have someone knowledgeable do it, but 3-4 times the cost of me to do it, I can't justify paying someone else.

Unfortunately, I'm pretty atypical for my area. Bloomington-Normal is flush with young professionals who can't swing a hammer, so contractors can ask for some pretty high prices (we have some of the highest home-improvement costs in the country).

I'll give another example. Last week, I called a plumber for a leaky shower. Now, I've tried to fix it myself but the aftermarket seals are not the proper size and would actually make it leak worse. The company that makes the valve went out of business ten years ago. The plumber comes over and tells me he's going to have to rip out the whole valve and re-tile. It will take three days and cost $1,000. I tell him this is overkill for a bad seal. He explains that they don't make this kind of valve anymore (which I already knew). So after 45 minutes of arguing, he finally says that he can get a seal for my shower at a shop in town (that I didn't know of), but it will cost another $150. I say I'll get it myself. Now I had to pay $90 for him to come out and try to talk me into work I didn't need. I go to the shop he mentioned and sure enough they have some old seals from the original manufacturer than have been sitting on the shelf for ten years. A set of seals and springs costs me $1.50, of course I bought their only other set as spares. So for a grand total of $3.00, I was able to fix the problem. Well, $3.00 and $90.00...

Well, think about it if you were the plumber. First, you don't really know if they even have the seals. If you take the job, you gotta go out there to actually see the seals. If they don't have it, then will the customer pay for his time? Not just to go out, but the time it took to take the stem or seal off and the time to come out to see you. Well, are you? And, if he puts in a new shower mixer, he knows that is don't to his spec and guarantee that it will work. What if it new seals springs a leak 1 week from now and ruins your hardwood floor, then what. He's responsible for it. If not law suit time. No one is dumb enough to put themself in that situtation so you can save a few bucks. Sure I do it all the time but only to clients whom I know and have been working with for a long time. I can trust them.

Got a phone call this morning from an old client who wanted me to look at their cabinet door. Its not closing. Drove out to Bel Aire and discovered it need a new hinge. It broke. I go back next week to fix it. I could stick him with the bill for $400.00 and I will get about 150 thankyous before I leave. I am doing it for no charge because I like Phil. All that is about 4-5 hours of running around. If you think about it, is not so bad.

[rnln]

What are you pissing about? legion already paid $90 for the estimate. I think it's completely right.

Let say you are going to a mechanic. The mech give you an estimate, you have the right to do it or not. If you don't do it, then there might be a certain amount you have to pay for that estimate. This is the same situation.

I used to be a software consultant. Once, a former company called me in. While, I was working on an enhancement to one of their custom application, the networking guy sat right behind my shoulder, breathing right at my neck. I was frustrated. He then asked me if I can explain step by step what I do. I told him that he can watch. To make the story short, I agreed to leave and wrote them a bill of 2 hours (initial charge). This is similar situation as legion mentioned above, might even be worse. You can write a big bill as "look 717" mentioned above, but if both parties can't come to the end of the deal, then there is a certain fee applied. And legion paid his portion. To me, I don't think he did anything wrong.

Originally Posted by m21sniper

I agree with you jyl.

I don't really think legion did the right thing either. If i'd have been the guy he hired i'd have been really pissed.

[ruf-porsche]

Never trust anyone over 30.

That was the motto when I was growing up in the 70's

LOL

[Zeke]

Now it's don't trust anyone under 40. I was thinking about the 30 thing all along.

[m21sniper]

Originally Posted by rnln

What are you pissing about? legion already paid $90 for the estimate. I think it's completely right.

Pissing about?

I guess you're British?

LOL...i love British terms.

[rnln]

m21sniper,
What te ver man, but you know what I was talking about. Now I am pissing at you.